West Hollywood (California) Makes Fur Ban Official!

THAT'S the point!

So it's ok to kill it if you are going to eat it even if you don't really need to kill it to eat it?

Yes Jan it is Ok to kill for food even if your filthy rich and you can buy all the food you want. We have taken out most all the preditors in nature and need to maintain some sort of population control. In some places the deer have gotten so thick that they are spreading disease . The same thing with Ducks and Geese. they are so many geese and ducks that the feeding grounds can no longer support them.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/10/26/news/a1-mon-deer.txt Here is a small story about one place out of many that is having a deer problem.

You feel that animals should be eaten while they are still alive?

Not so. Just read up on the "design" and placement of our teeth, please. Pardon my jumping in, but humans are not -- and never were -- omnivores.

Study, as well, our intestinal system. Humans' bodies did not evolve to bite into and tear up live animal flesh. It couldn't happen, physically.

It is sort of fun watching those who just read the headline but are too lazy to read a story that can be absorbed in less than a minute just as they jump off a cliff.

Uhhhh.... yeah I did. Hence my comment above. Anyone can just say they're selling synthetic and sell the real thing.

Everyone isn't as dishonest as you seem to be.

Hahahahaha I'm on the side of the people trying to ban fur and you're admonishing me for telling the truth? Have you EVER been to a big city? Do you know anything about street vendors????? "They must be honest? Why would they lie to me?"

In New York City restaurants have been selling blue fin tuna for years while SWEARING they're not selling endangered blue fin tuna. The only way they ever figured out they were selling it was by doing a DNA analysis of the meat.

The human race is dishonest get used to it, if you want to ban fur you DEFINITELY have to go farther than this meager measure. You're trying to say "oh but you didn't read the article EmperorThan it's banned so therefore it will MAGICALLY end the practice there!" but that's insanely naive on your part and anyone else who wants to self deny black markets exist.

Let me guess you deny there's an ivory trade going on too? "Surely not EmperorThan, selling ivory is banned!"

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/11/tunadna/

Bullshit.

More bullshit. All that can be expected from an ignorant right wing redneck.

I'm a progressive liberal, thank you very much. I just don't agree with people like you whom are the bleeding hearts of our society. Grow a spine. I bet you give money to PETA or H$U$ don't you? Just like the millions of others that do so blindly without knowing the truth behind what they advocate.

I if you think that you are a "progressive liberal", you are delusional. You, sir, have no idea what these organisations advocate and your attitude only cements your status as an ignorant redneck. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself.

If you support PETA or the H$U$, you support domestic terrorists. Plain and simple. If you really care about animals, donate to your local shelters, not PETA or H$U$ The money will actually do some good instead of going to pay salaries or pay for advertising to get MORE donations from hapless saps. PEAT and H$U$ play on people's emotions, they don't want anyone to know their true agenda, if they did they wouldn't have as many donors.

You are making a fool of yourself.

Even more bullshit (in Festers defense.)

"Has anyone ever seen a coyote dying from mange or distemper? I have and it's a terrible way to die."

Chewing a leg off while trying to free yourself from the jaws of a steel trap is a better way to die? I really don't think I care for your brand of humanitarianism.

Charlie, it just goes to show how uneducated you are about trapping. In my 20 years of trapping I have never had an animal 'chew it's leg off' as you say. I've had them pull out from not catching them firmly, but I've never had one chew out. Plus, I use soft-catch footholds, look it up before you assume you know what you're talking about. I walk up to coyotes in my traps that are asleep. My state also has a 24 hour check law. That means i must check them at least every 24 hours, I sometimes check them twice. Brrr, it's cold, I'm going to go put on my beaver lined house slippers now, good day to you.

I really, really resent the tone this particular topic has taken, and 99% of it is because of your invasion into something that meant a great deal to me in a PEACEFUL way. You've gone excruciatingly overboard in your attempts to horrify -- hurt? -- those of us who choose to live in a far less violent way than you.

I make every attempt (and, yes, sometimes I fail) to keep things emotionally healthy here, and I'm so unappreciative of what direction you've forced the rest of us to go in. Can you please show some respect and kindness and silence yourself, at least here, within this topic? That would be nice.

Why do I need to be silent when people like you and the West Hollywood City Council are FORCING your beliefs on others? It only makes me want to speak more loudly and more frequently against others ramming their politically correct, bleeding heart, city dweller lifestyle down SO many others throats. Collectively as sportsmen, we're tired of it. The world is a violent place, get used to it. Since you asked nicely though, I'll leave it at that. Have a wonderful day. Also unlike all of you, I use my real name. I don't hide behind a username.

.

On the bad side, not one of those city council members is vegan.

On the good side, they did something that is good.

And everyone needs to learn, right? This can help.

.

I prefer education to bylaws such as this which are all but impossible to enforce. Look how far we've come - it's now considered socially unacceptable to wear fur

I have nothing but respect for people such as yourself who practice what they preach.

What makes you think that an ordinance that prohibits the sale of fur within city limits is "all but impossible to enforce"?

Let me put it this way. Do you really think that people who want to buy fur won't find a way to do it? Do you really think that people who want to sell it won't find a way to do it?

How many enforcement officers is the city going to pay to enforce this? Do you know how much it will cost the city to prosecute these cases in court? How much they're going to have to spend in legal fees?

Is this really a priority for the city? Do they not have much larger problems they should be dealing with?

It's obvious that you've never been to West Hollywood which is a town that can chew gum and walk at the same time. This is one of many priorities that the citizens here felt was important enough to have enacted into law.

We can only control what we have jurisdiction over. If someone wants to buy the skins of dead animals as a fashion statement, they can go elsewhere to do it. We have taken a moral stand and more towns should try it some time.

Department stores and outlets as well as all other apparel shops are now forbidden to sell anything made of real fur. How many police do we need? No more than we already have.

Let them be consistent and also ban the sale of leather and meat.

You seem unable to admit that you were wrong. That's fine.

Alas, that guilty feeling about wearing fur seems to be going away. About a week ago, I was talked into visiting a huge outdoor shopping center where all the stores are high-end (and embarrassingly pretentious). I swear to you, I saw more fur than anything else in the various windows! It was sickening and godawful.

And the problem is, the items that are advertised as using "fake fur" are not always FAKE. They're from dogs and cats (China), and if you pull at the seam, you can see the dried flesh. And that includes not only clothing, but toys for animal companions.

As for practicing what I preach (as an atheist, mind you!), my two closest friends and I are deeply involved in humane education. There are still tens of thousands -- make that millions -- of humans who either haven't got a clue as to what's going on, or don't WANT to know what's happening to our animal friends. It's time we spread the word as to what's really going on.

Yes, I must agree... West Hollywood is magnificently progressive.

West Hollywood no longer allows the sale of any animals in any "pet" stores -- supplies and toys only.

For some years, now, I've wished I could afford to move to West Hollywood -- where the people are alive and caring and terrific!

Let's see how this plays out.

If I'm wrong, I'll find your profile and tell you in public - you were right and I was wrong.

Until then, I think I'm right - this will either get struck down in court or end up being unenforcable.

But never mind about the fur. As previously poor nations, such as China and India, grow economically, meat consumption is increasing at outrageously unsustainable rates. If you want to save both animals and our planet, better start educating people about how to cook and eat vegetarian or vegan, and discourage the use of leather in clothing and shoes.

As I mentioned before, you have my deepest respect for your convictions and the fact that you both live and fight for them.