Missionaries of Hate

You have every right to be a homophobic bigot and you have a right to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. You claim that Africa has never accepted homosexuality. Unless I'm mistaken, South Africa is still a part of Africa, and South Africa offers legal equality for gay people in every way, including same-sex marriage. You also seem to have a totally fundamentalist view of the Old Testament. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was the sin of inhospitality toward the angelic strangers who were guests of Lot. So grave a sin was the breaking of hospitality laws that Lot offered up his virgin daughters to the townspeople rather than allow the strangers to be robbed, beaten, injured, or murdered. Finally, there is no such thing as a gay "lifestyle" unless there is such a thing as a straight "lifestyle." This usage of "lifestyle" here is a loaded term invented by right-wing religious bigots, such as yourself, to suggest that being gay is a choice rather than a natural orientation. If homosexuality is NOT a choice, then your deity made a mistake when he created gay people as he created straights, right? And your god doesn't make mistakes, does he? Or maybe it's just haters, such as yourself, and not god, who hates homosexuals. Wrap your tiny mind around that idea.

Actually, homosexuality was never a big issue in much of Africa until Britain imposed its new anti-gay laws across the Empire in the 1880s/1890s. Whilst many good things came from the Empire, it is to my deep regret that is it is homophobia that came from the West, not tolerance. If African countries really want to revert to their original culture and beliefs, then this is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

I really cannot believe that any right-minded and moral person can in any way condone any part of the Ugandan bill.

What about the AMERICAN legislators that influenced them?

LOL! VERY FUNNY!

RIGHT ON!

AND YOU ARE DOING THE SAME EXACT THING :) It's funny how that when something bad happens the Church based organizations are the only ones that really reach out and help those in need besides the government funded orgs. I understand that there are some church orgs that are not right but you can't put every church org in that same boat. Their are some that are still honest God loving people that understand that everybody has a choice to choose how they want to live. If you really understood the why God's intructions say don't do this or don't do that and why He hates sin (not the person) you would love Him and those that live fore Him because everything that He commanded is pretty much for our good and protection. like don't lie, who wants someone that lies all the time around them? don't steal, who can trust a person that take things from them without permission? don't murder, this one is self explained and so on. These to me, are laws of love. So God also uses His people to help others financially, spiritually and more...so be careful how you think because you might need the very ones you're speaking against.

Taxpayers should not be required to subsidize organized religion, in my view, period. Good works, can be done, have been done and ARE being done by non-religious groups & organizations.

Until organized religion learns to stay out of other people's govt's, secular laws, doctor's offices & bedrooms we need to protect ourselves from organized religion (and religious fanatics) by not subsidizing their activities. If churches need financial support it should come from their followers not taken from everyone else.

END TAX EXEMPT STATUS FOR ALL CHURCHES NOW!

How is IMTCTV leeching off the public teat like religions? The only reason religious organisations go into poverty stricken areas is so that they can recruit new members from poor. its very powerful giving them food when they are starving and then saying you must live your life OUR way or burn in hell. Even YOU say that people choose how they live. Since when did you choose to be straight? I didn't choose to be gay. God made me that way, same as you. You need to respect the sexual orientations created by god. After all you will be answerable to 'him' one day. Don't start on that rubbish in the bible either. That wasn't written by god, not even god's representatives. Just a bunch of inherently corrupt, sexist, violent, homophobic men over a 500 year period after the death of christ.

agreed...you have a valid point there

Are you talking about the new testament (500 AD) well what about Leviticus and the Law of Moses that was before that? See you won't be able to understand the truth of why churches do what they do because you have set your mind against the things of God. If you was in agreement with God then you wouldn't deny the truth. God didn't make you gay. He created you to be a man if you have the XY genes and XX genes is for the woman. I was born a woman and that is what I am. I am not confused about that and I love being the woman that God has made me and I am married to a man, which God created for me. Male and Female was created to be together which is the perfect match :) so your theory of choice dosen't matter because the proof is in the pudding lol. A tree can't say I am a bird and get up off the ground and fly away...a 3 year old child can say and pretend that they are grown but in reality, that child will continue to be a child. a man can say that he is a woman but when he drop his pants and undershorts he will see exactly what he is (unless he had surgery) and same for a woman. Also you can't tell me to not talk about the bible. I will talk about whatever I choose to lol. As far as the church helping those in need and sharing with them the Good News of Jesus Christ the Holy Messiah which also spoke of Hell more than most, to warn as I warn you, that if you don't turn away from sins and stop rejecting the one that love you then you will also parrish (smile). I know that you want to throw stones at me but I actually typed this in love and hope that you receive the truth. Even though I am responding to your comment, this most likely will be the last response because i will not go back and forth with people because we are not on the same page. so hopefully God will deal with your mind and allow you to see the truth and come to repentence through Jesus the Christ :)

Who do you think you are? You DON'T know the mind of god! You're NOT god yourself so drop the bullshit. God has never written anything down and thats a fact. You should try sticking to those. I haven't set my mind against god, in fact it is you who is trying to persecute god's children because he made them gay in the same way he made others straight. You've very confused actually or just stupid. God made gay men and straight men. Men have great sex together without the need for a woman. Your argument have no logic or fact. You don't even know the meaning of love so stop pretending your hate for others is in some way a good thing.

While it's heartening that the bill has lost it's momentum once again, the pressure ought to be brought to bear directly upon any religious organization at home that supports the protestant churches in Uganda. The Catholic and Anglican sees ought to alos be admonished for not taking a tougher stance against discrimination within their folds. The priests and ministers in Uganda need to be brought to the mat and asked to speak out in opposition to mass murder of anyone, no matter their personal taste on the issue! Further, any monetary aid to Uganda should be directed out of the hands of these churches. The influence of western churches ought never bring about such devastatingly horrific results.

Hi Five Sisterd! Some people won't agree with the Facts, and truth, but just keep standing for what's right! = )

The facts? Really? Where are the FACTS? The bible isn't fact. Its a group of contradictory stories written by a bunch of inherently corrupt, sexist, violent, homophobic men with an agenda to control the masses over a 500 year period after the death of christ. Thats all. Nothing more, nothing less. Thats not fact. Its not even the word of god so you can stop pretending to know the mind of god, telling the rest of us how we should live our lives. You're going to need to explain to him or her your behaviour towards his/her other creations so I suggest you start treating them better than you are now.

100 Points!

I think this is a prime example a "cause" orientated church rather then a Jesus orientated church.They have replaced Jesus for a cause and become religious and now worry about their kingdom instead of God's kingdom. :D

What would make a supposedly normal person participate knowingly, willingly in a sexual activity in which 20% (and growing) of those who do it get a terminal disease? How can people legitimize a lifestyle choice in which the actions of those who do it suffer mental illness at 4-5 times the average heterosexual and where homosexuals are 44 times more likely to contract AIDS\HIV than the average heterosexual?
Sorry, dantee I don't think it is those who cling to religion who are ones with diminished intelligence and common sense when looking at those facts.

I think your onto something.

Ignorance, hatred? Gee jgalquist, just why is it that people like you just hate science, reason, logic and actual facts? Is it because it flies in the face of the lies perpetrated by those who support gay rights? I am only stating medical, scientific facts while you state unfounded rhetoric and feelings? Facts are facts jgalquist, AIDS\HIV IS a lifestyle disease, gay supporting groups like the UN, WHO and CDC are the ones who put these studies together not some right wing, religous groups. Sticking ones member up anothers poopshoot goes against our own bodies pysiology so why is it that you want to make a choice that results in disease, death?

Yeah, I really hate those science haters too. It's 11:45 and there is 1" of snow on the ground in East Alabama expecting 4". Those freaking scientist and their theory of "Global Warming" HA!

Don't you worry now jgalquist, you just continue on drinking the koolaid, Darwin will catch up with you soon, science shows us exactly the nature of homosexuality so you just keep on "feeling" it.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Seriously - answering any argument with rhetoric from the bible is lame and holds no logic. It just shows you've run out of ammo.

Aww so sorry libsechumanist, I don't believe I have used the bible in my argument. Science though I have brought forth and I am still waiting on you and your happy go lucky ilk to provide some evidence that homosexuality is good for the human pysiology or to go against the facts of science. Seems like you can't, wonder why? Oh yea, that's because your logic is all based on "feelings".

You really should post a link to the source when you cut and paste. Otherwise someone might think you're trying to appear smarter than you are by plagiarizing from other web sites. Having said that, I think you might want to explore the reasons why you're so afraid of homosexuality. I'm sure you're aware that its accepted wisdom that those who hate homosexuality the most are very likely closet gays themselves.

So sorry Cailleach, let me further educate you with some sources:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf
http://www.hivinfosource.org/hivis/hivbasics/demographics/
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/vct/sw_toolkit/aids_male_male_sex_latin_america_full_version.pdf
http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dph/aids/2010_profiles/living_with_hiv.pdf
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/diseases/hiv/epiprofile/execsummary.html
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/AIDS/HIV.html
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/ngmHAAD2010PressRelease.html
http://www.marysremnant.org/Friends/DBK/BKHomAids.html
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/aids.html
http://www.who.int/hiv/data/en/index.html

I really could go on and on but I'd rather let you flounder around in your ignorance and stupidity and let darwin make things right for you. As far as fear of homosexuality, bwhahaha, yea, thats it. Fear of homosexuality, why would I fear a lifestyle in which gay men have a 20+ year less life expectancy, in which they suffer mental illness at rates 4-5 times the normal heterosexual population. The reason is, I don't fear homosexuality or homosexuals, I pity them and sympathize that they have been lied to for decades that the destructive lifestyle they lead is normal.
A multi-city study in the U.S found that 1 in 5 men who have sex with men were infected with HIV whilst official U.S statistics show the rate of new HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men is 44 times that of other men. Wow, such a great lifestyle to lead where 20% of gay men have AIDS and its growing. I guess darwin is right.

Your plagurism actually originated here http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCgQFjAC&url...

You say that like it is a bad thing to bring the truth to light.

HIV/AIDS is transmitted by any human being who has unprotected sex with someone who is infected. Its as simple as that. HIV/AIDS doesn't discriminate only you do. Your facts are clearly wrong. You say that gay men have a life expectancy of 20+ years. I'm 43 and very much alive and HIV/AIDS free. So are all my mates. I know gay men who are 80 years old and very healthy. Any psychological issues any gay men may have had come purely through centuries of repression and abuse by people like you however that won't be an issue in the future because people like you are loosing your grip on the world. Even gay marriage is recognised now. Its not going to be long before is completely globally recognised.

Obviously global, being gay has impacted your frontal lobe somewhat. Science has shown, studies have shown my facts bear out versus your feelings on it. Are there exceptions, of course, just like the life long smoker who lives to the ripe old age of 100. HIV\AIDS is a "lifestyle" disease, unprotected sex with those who practice unhealthy sex acts, drug habits will lead to the disease. As far as the psychological issues, those studies were done in gay friendly countries so please give it a rest with the repression and abuse BS, sticking your dick up another mans ass is your choice, not a natural or healthy choice but your choice. You chose your lifestyle, not me, deal with the consequences, deal with the disease that comes along with it. As far as gay marriage goes, there are some countries that accept adult incest so should we accept that as well? Oh yea, Sweden and the Netherlands (big gay supporters) also allow incest between adults. Acts of adult consensual incest is not punished as a crime; Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg, Turkey, Russia, India, Israel, Brazil and Japan do not punish consensual adult incest.In Italy, incest is punished as a criminal offense (Art. 564 Penal Code) if, and apparently only if, it causes 'public scandal'. Romania and Switzerland have considered repealing their incest laws. Rhode Island repealed its criminal incest statute in 1989, Ohio only targets parental figures, and New Jersey does not apply any penalties for incest to anyone over the age of 18. So global001, when do we accept adult incest?

LOL. Science in fact has proved that HIV/AIDS doesn't discriminate who it lives in. Thats bore out by the fact that so many straight people in Africa are living with the disease. You haven't said anything which warrants a logical discussion on the topic.

Thats ok global001 you continue to drink your kookaid. When someone has sex with someone, they are essentially having sex with everyone that person had sex with and every person that they had sex with and so on and so on. All it takes is BI one guy who dipped his dick into the HIV/AIDS infected ass of another man to pass it along to a women who then passes it along to a straight man and then a woman. It all comes back to those (majority of the gay community) who use the ass as a toy despite being told by medical professionals, scientists that hey, thats not what it is used for! Funny how 2 straight people with no previous sexual contact who have sex the natural way for decades with no protection never get HIV\AIDS. As a matter of fact, straights who have no gay sex in there or there partners or partners partners sexual history don't get HIV\AIDS either and yet the gay man who has his idea of normal anal sex without protection, can and will get HIV\AIDS. If gay sex is so normal and natural, don't use protection.

unconscious....

sounds like something cousin Lucifer would say

So libsec, you believe that pedophiles, padeophiles others who practice incest or bestiality should be protected as well? That they despite being in a socially (for now) unaccepted behavior should be protected and given special rights as well? More foolish, ignorant rhetoric from those with no common sense, logic or reason.

Rory, you have some very real psychological issues not to mention that you're really quite ignorant. Please educate yourself and stop peeking in other people's bedroom windows in order to try to control what consenting adults are doing with other consenting adults. Its really none of your business.

LOL, I have psychological issues and I'm ignorant. I really couldn't care if they want to contribute to the darwin awards cailleach, just don't sit there and tell me it's all good when AIDS\HIV continues to expand and kill just to fit your conscience and lifestyle choice. Truth is, it is the homosexual community which has psychological issues and are ignorant to think that AIDS\HIV is going away and they are going to continue to act against the human pysiology without repercussions.

that's so true rory. you are telling the truth. those that love darkness will always find excuses and hate those that tell the truth because they are in darkness just like their fathers so don't waste your time going back and forward. deal with those that want to hear the truth and change. the world will hate us and yet call us haters...if someone reply to this comment, i will not respond.

Man are you a moron. Nearly every pedophile is a heterosexual and no, I'm not for pedophilia, the Catholic church is. And yes, you do probably have psychological issues if you can't discern between homosexuality, incest, or bestiality. Just be glad wherever you live hasn't decided to put stupid people to death for being stupid - or for having the wrong ideas about something - because you'd be in bit trouble. Your argument holds no common sense, logic, or reason - just hate. Special rights? You mean the right not do die for loving someone of the same gender?

How can you lump together the consensual love between two men or two women with the forced rape of incest, pedophilia & bestiality? Rape is NOTHING like consensual sex, and suggesting that homosexual couples are the same as rapists trivializes rape and the devastation it inflicts upon its victims.

P.S. haven't you ever been to gay pride? there's a reason it's called gay pride, because everyone is happy and proud of who they are. I highly suggest checking it out, it's a blast!

Your right lib, if they put people to death for being stupid you would've been gone long ago.
Anyway, I suggest you look at the number of cases of "consensual" adult incest do you deny that they should be free to love who they want and gain all the special priviledges homosexuals desire for themselves? In the Netherlands and Sweden, both countries held up by gay rights groups as being so progressive it is legal for a brother and sister to engage in sexual relations. France, Brazil, Argentina also allow it. Now as far as ped's go, science seems to show that they actually are born with neurological issues that lend them to the behavior they do. In fact there are advocacy groups out there in which they want to modify age of consent laws, one such group NAMBLA was actually endorsed by prominent gay activist Harry Hay. Harry Hay is Safe Schools Czar Kevin Jennings inspiration for all he does. Pat Califia a well-known NAMBLA supporter and pedophilia advocate who once wrote “Instead of condemning pedophiles for their involvement with lesbian and gay youth, we should be supporting them.” A petition for a reduction in the age of consent in the Netherlands authored by the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) and others,endorsed by some mainstream Dutch social welfare and public mental health organizations, the executives of the ruling Labour Party and some minority parties was put forth to a vote, fortunatly the petition failed but this is an example of the subtle ways to lower age consent laws so that children can be allowed to experience the same emotional, sexual relations homosexuals do. MARTIJN publishes a pro-pedophilia magazine called OK. In 2004, Martijn handed out flyers at a gay pride march in Belgium. As far as the Catholic church goes, 90+ percent of the Priest\Child abuse was Male to Male and depending on the age, could be classified as a normal homosexual relationship.

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pro-pedophile_activism
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/index.php?s=harry+hay
http://www.google.com/search?q=where+is+biological+sibling+marriage+legal&ie...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Here Ziggy, in case you miss my reply up above.
Anyway, I suggest you look at the number of cases of "consensual" adult incest do you deny that they should be free to love who they want and gain all the special priviledges homosexuals desire for themselves? In the Netherlands and Sweden, both countries held up by gay rights groups as being so progressive it is legal for a brother and sister to engage in sexual relations. France, Brazil, Argentina also allow it. Now as far as ped's go, science seems to show that they actually are born with neurological issues that lend them to the behavior they do. In fact there are advocacy groups out there in which they want to modify age of consent laws, one such group NAMBLA was actually endorsed by prominent gay activist Harry Hay. Harry Hay is Safe Schools Czar Kevin Jennings inspiration for all he does. Pat Califia a well-known NAMBLA supporter and pedophilia advocate who once wrote “Instead of condemning pedophiles for their involvement with lesbian and gay youth, we should be supporting them.” A petition for a reduction in the age of consent in the Netherlands authored by the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) and others,endorsed by some mainstream Dutch social welfare and public mental health organizations, the executives of the ruling Labour Party and some minority parties was put forth to a vote, fortunatly the petition failed but this is an example of the subtle ways to lower age consent laws so that children can be allowed to experience the same emotional, sexual relations homosexuals do. MARTIJN publishes a pro-pedophilia magazine called OK. In 2004, Martijn handed out flyers at a gay pride march in Belgium. As far as the Catholic church goes, 90+ percent of the Priest\Child abuse was Male to Male and depending on the age, could be classified as a normal homosexual relationship.
As far as gay pride goes, if the Folsom Street Fair is any indication of gay pride all I can say is thank goodness for Darwin. The street fairy is a prime example that the "lifestyle" chosen by homosexuals is nothing but a recipe for disease and death.

http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley_2008/
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pro-pedophile_activism
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/index.php?s=harry+hay
http://www.google.com/search?q=where+is+biological+sibling+marriage+legal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

They DO it for LOVE? to kill people who are born gay? where is your reason? and, in the gay bar usually gay people gather, what is a young "straight" guy doing in a gay bar if he is not closeted gay? have you ever wander? Ignorance is what most people got about the gay issue. Luckily we have good legislators and great changes are taking place, Human Right changes. Remember the blacks? they were slaves!!! remember woman had limited rights (they still do) just 70 years ago? Uganda is acting out of hate and ignorance.

Lets see the science that says you are born gay adamla. Oh yea, that's right there is no science that shows it. No gay gene, no gay dna .. just choice.

Obviously no reasoned thought so you ought to think about changing your name. Hustler bars are the same wether they are straight or gay so you can stop trying to pin that on gays. Its impossible to recruit anyone into being gay. Thats ridiculous. Nobody can change their sexual orientation. For hundreds of years now governments, religions and society have globally used all of their power to change gay men into straight men and its hasn't worked. Your belief in heterosexuality is so weak and fragile that you think some drugs and a discussion about family issues is all it takes to change it? Your arguments completely flawed and the fragile beliefs you hold about heterosexuality are a reflection of your own self. Instead spreading ignorance and hate, how about you grow some balls and face up to your own personal sexual orientation issues.

And there's no science to disprove it.

No science to disprove it, LMAO. Good one global, still drinking that kookaid huh.

So lamplight, you say it isn't our place to judge others based on others orientation or preference and yet I imagine you feel that incest, bestiality, padeophilia & pedophila, all orientations in which people declare a preference to or feel they are born with should be accepted as well? Going by medical science, facts and not the whole "feeling" thing you seem to live by, the lifestyle of homosexuality gives gays 20+ years LESS to live (smokers only get 13 years less) than heterosexuals, suffer mental illness 4-5 times more than heterosexuals, where 20% (and growing) of gay men are AIDS\HIV positive here in the US, 10% of those did not even know they had it. Please your pardon my speak, holier than thou post speaks louder of an ignorance of the gay lifestyle than anything else. Your man and woman will live by their own standards reeks again of ignorance, who are YOU to say that practicioners of adult incest are wrong, who are YOU to say that the adult having sexual relations with a child is wrong after all we give children (minors) the right to seek abortions without parental notice. Abortions a serious medical procedure and yet we allow minors who can't legally smoke, drink, own a gun, drive a car, have a job, vote, join the military to do it. Your rhetoric is so filled with holes, your sinking on dry land. Man's moral standars are just that, mans standards which change with the wind to suit the whims of self righteous fools like you.

You "imagine" what other think? Get it through your head that what consenting adults do together is really none of your business.

I really couldn't care if they want to contribute to the darwin awards cailleach, just don't sit there and tell me it's all good when AIDS\HIV continues to expand and kill just to fit your conscience and lifestyle choice.

And then God created the Republican Party to give them a place to hangout.

Seriously - it would be funny if it weren't so close to the truth.

Your right fm82, just like homosexuality is. I say remove religion from the protected status' along with homosexuality.

if it's nobody's business what people do in their bedrooms then keep it there and don't try and make what you do public ;)

No none is making "what they do" public - homosexuality isn't the act of homosexual sex just like heterosexuality isn't the act of heterosexual sex. A heterosexual can be celibate as can a homosexual. If you don't understand the basics of an argument, stay out of it. These LGBT folks aren't making "what they do" in their bedrooms public; those horrible politicians and clergy want them killed for their orientation. My daily life is not run by the fact that I'm heterosexual and I doubt that most heterosexuals do; but people like you, these politicians, and these members of clergy are clearly defining homosexuals by a different standard than you define yourselves. YOU can love who you want and they can't. Simple. And Wrong.

so your theory then follows that straight ppl shouldn't have public displays of affection either. you're one negative, sad, lonely, unloved person.

, the comparison in these discussions is, /not/ between your skin color and my romantic orientation. What is being compared is the /persecution/ that each of us faces because of our perceived differences from the empowered "norm".

You are quite correct, there is little that skin color has in common with orientation on the surface. However, as a point of "difference" by which people believe that we are somehow less worthy of love, protection, respect, dignity, freedom, and life, they are very much related.

It is also true when you say that no one has ever died of a lack of sex. People die every day, however, by their own hand in despair from being alone and afraid. Celibacy is something that God calls some people to, and some of those people are gay, but not all gay people are called to celibacy. As far as the "freedom of choice", yes, I have the power to force myself to remain celibate or to marry a woman, but having that choice doesn't make it the right one. You have the choice to bleach your skin, but that wouldn't make you any more "white", and it would deeply harm your spirit in the process. Living a lie and denying ourselves to the point of harm are always wrong because they are always unloving to ourselves, and separate us from our neighbor, all at once: breaking the second part of Jesus' Law of Love (Love God & Love Neighbor as Self).

You are correct again in saying that there is no "test" for orientation other than a person's own feelings. However, you misunderstand this to mean that orientation itself is therefor a choice. The human mind is terribly and wonderfully complex, and it is deeply affected by the biology of our brains and bodies. Science is showing us that orientation has many powerful biological factors that can be clearly and easily seen in humans as well as animals - part of God's natural order. Science has also told us, again and again since it began to ask the question 90 years ago, that orientation cannot be changed and that attempting to do so causes extreme harm to the individual.

Again, I agree that Jesus supports straight marriage in the passage you quote and elsewhere as well. I think you should be aware that "straight" marriage and "gay" marriage are not inherently opposed to each other across the society. Jesus supported polygamy and slavery as well, those being the social norms of that time. He also said that there were many things that the disciples then "could not bear to hear" right then that would be taught to subsequent generations. One can safely say that Jesus might have different things to say if we could hear his voice spoken out loud today, such as monogamy, and the injustice of owning another person - things the people of Biblical times could not have approached with understanding or faith: they were already stretched to the max with what Jesus was already teaching them!

These things, race and orientation (and gender too), are both integral parts of who each of us are, not mere surface qualities of cosmetics or preference, and when we are devalued because of them, we should stand united against the concept and practice of oppression, even though we are oppressed for different things.

"arsenokoites" is the Greek word Paul invented in 1Cor that got translated "homosexuals" in a few Bibles, but that's not what it means. "Arsen" means man/forceful/violent and "koites" means bed/sex - it was used after Paul to refer to the practice of men /raping/ their defeated foes in war. Gay rape is wrong: check.

The word translated "sodomites" in that translation you're using is actually "malakoi" (don't you think Paul would have used a word relating to Sodom if he meant that meaning? He knew that story...) and it means "soft" and was used to refer to the extreme decadence in the Greek culture in other texts at the time. Material decadence is wrong: check.

Incidentally, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, according to the Bible was not homosexuality, but rather the reason that God intended to destroy them was that they had canceled the law of Hospitality. God's most precious law for a people living in a desert was a derivative of "Love Your Neighbor" that said "The alien among you shall be as a citizen" and it meant in practice that a traveler was to be treated with great respect and hospitality, as an honored guest "because men have entertained angels unawares". Even if you want to include the final incident with Lot, that's clearly about gang rape (did you notice how it was OK for Lot to offer his daughters instead of his guests, because he valued the law of hospitality over them?) and not gender. Hospitality is good, gang rape is wrong: check.

I can go on, but you see my point: the "clear meaning of Scripture" is that homosexuality is not against God's will at all.

Homosexuals and Sodomites are translated from the Greek Words: Malakoi, and Arsenokoites.

According to “A Greek- English Lexicon of the New Testament by Walter Baur” Malakoi can refer to items or things as “Soft”…i.e., soft clothes, soft garments, and IT CAN REFER TO PEOPLE who are “Soft, effeminate” (Effeminate means guys who look, behave or speak like a women) and, especially of CATAMITES, which are “ men and boys who ALLOW themselves to be misused homosexually” (p.488).

It’s OBVIOUS that Paul is talking about people in 1 Corinthians 6:9, and not “soft clothes” or “soft morals” which really make no sense at all. I agree that the people were of “extreme decadence” or in a “state of uninhibited immoral self indulgence”. But what is self indulgence? Is it not a lack of self control? Those men could have had a wife to share their sexual affections with, but it wasn’t good enough for them, they burned for more. When you go beyond what is fitting and appropriate then it is self-indulgent, and sinful.

Paul is referring to Malakos as the soft Passive Partner in the homosexual relationship. They allow themselves to be “You know what “in the butt.
For Arsenokoites Bauer writes, "A male who practices homosexuality, pederast, sodomite" (p.109).

Pederast - means a man, who has sexual relations with a boy,
Sodomite- is an offensive term for somebody who practices anal intercourse.
So according to Bauer, an Arsenokoites is the more dominate homosexual partner in the sexual relationship. I don’t know what reference you’re using to prove what you’re trying to prove, but it’s not lining up.

Since you tried to use Sodom and Gomorrah in the OT to support your belief of homosexuality, I will also use a scripture from the OT and it says “‘if a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”(Leviticus 20:13). So God condemns homosexuality in the OT too, and there is no way you can say the Bible is for homosexuality, because it’s clearly against it. The god you’re talking about isn’t the God of the Bible.

Jesus said “What God has joined together, let no on separate” Mark 10:6-9). God made sexual intercourse between one man, and one woman. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let NO ON SEPARATE.” Satan is a liar, and distorts the truth to fit his pleasure kind of like what you’re doing. Sex was made by God for one man, and one woman, anything else comes from Satan. All I can say is don’t give my God credit for Satan’s work – Homosexuality is not from God.

Bauer's work on these words is entirely baseless according to every source I've read. There is no evidence that these words were ever used to refer to homosexuality until the end of the Middle ages or later, and much evidence that they were used as I said, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to actually read anything that challenged your preconceived ideas, as I have (I used to believe as you do until my own struggle forced me to read deeper).

Let me know when (if) you're ready for a reading list of Scriptural and scientific bases for my side of this, and we can talk. Until then, I suggest that you consider how many people your ideas are pushing away from faith in God, and thus you are removing them from the certain hope of salvation. Not their sins, but rather your denial of their hope of the forgiveness of those sins. Because even if I'm wrong about this one thing, there are people in this world who are closer to salvation because of my public theology, but if you are wrong /or/ right, there are fewer people in God's house because of your words and actions.

David Kato has been murdered...congratulations. This is what your hatred brings.

So what do you say about pedophiles, padeophiles groups who feel they have no choice, that are born feeling the way they do? Should they and the feelings they have be protected as well and given special rights?