Tech | August 01, 2008 | 46 comments

Cheap solar at night? MIT may have answer within a decade

source: http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/08/01/cheap_solar_at_night_mit_may_have_answer/

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JanforGore
MIT researchers say they have discovered a way to use solar energy cheaply even after the sun goes down, which could make it a mainstream source of power within the next decade.

Solar energy has been expensive and inefficient to use after dark, said Daniel Nocera, 51, the Henry Dreyfus professor of energy and professor of chemistry at MIT. But in an article published in the July 31 issue of the journal Science, Nocera and other Massachusetts Institute of Technology researchers say they have found a simple, inexpensive process for storing solar energy.

"How the heck are you going to build an economy or a business only if the sun is shining?" said Nocera, the senior author. "What you really need to do is when the sun is shining, figure out how to store some of that energy so you can unleash it when the sun isn't shining."

Nocera and the other researchers based their work on a compound made from cobalt and phosphate, both readily available. When the sun is out, electricity from solar panels can be fed to the compound in water, causing the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen. The elements create a chemical fuel that can be recombined to create energy later, when the sun is not shining.

The discovery breaks "the connection between energy and fossil fuels because my energy is coming from water," said Nocera, "unleashing the solar energy, not in real time, but when you want to."

The researchers said the findings open the door for large-scale use of solar energy around the clock - not right away but within 10 years. The next step is engineering the system to create and use the solar power. That task will be part of an engineering design project at MIT during the upcoming semester, Nocera said.

Cost is the biggest challenge facing the solar energy industry, said Monique Hanis, spokeswoman for the Solar Energy Industries Association, an industry trade group in Washington, D.C.

"The industry is trying to cut costs and improve efficiency all along the supply chain," Hanis said. "The cost of solar should be on par with sort of traditional fossil sources in about eight years," based on the rising costs of other forms of energy and the trends the association has seen in cost reductions in solar over the last decade, she said.

Nocera and the MIT research group said they opted to publish their findings to allow the science community to work on the technology.

"The challenges confronting the world in energy are too big to let anybody's single ego or money get in the way," Nocera said. "And we're talking about some really challenging problems."
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46 comments // Cheap solar at night? MIT may have answer within a decade

  • covelogibbs
  • covelogibbs
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  

    • ------"Did anyone mention that the efficiency is less than 50%?"---------

      More than twice the efficiency of the typical gasoline engine.

      ----"Its good stuff... but, now you've double the cost atleast. "--------

      2 X 0 = 0 (cost of solar energy)

      ----"Better to "store" the energy from the day into the millions of car batteries that we all will be having someday (soon I hope). "------------

      Don't hold your breath hoping for someday soon, you'll turn very purple.

      ----"Right now 18% of our electricity is oil and 50% is coal 22% nuclear 10 % hydro (there is less than 1% wind/solar) "--------

      This is changing so fast that figures from last year are hopelessly out of date--let alone several years ago as these are. Renewable energy systems, especially smaller wind and solar grid tie installations can be made in a few days, down to a few hours. Even very large scale wind or solar projects take only months to complete versus years for nuclear power. Even under the optimum conditions, it takes 5-7 years minimum to construct a nuclear power plant.

      ----" Coal is really cheap and environmentally the worst of all."--------

      That is quite true. However, it is not really cheap anymore. You need oil to dig a stripmine. Digging 200 ft. down into the earth for a fuel you just burn once is incredibly damaging to the environment, AND incredibly inefficient.

    • 3 years ago
  • josol
    • 0
      josol  

    • Did anyone mention that the efficiency is less than 50%? Its good stuff... but, now you've double the cost atleast. Better to "store" the energy from the day into the millions of car batteries that we all will be having someday (soon I hope). Much more efficient. All this will help.... along with the primary source of electricity-reprocessing fuel (fast breeder) nuclear energy. Right now 18% of our electricity is oil and 50% is coal 22% nuclear 10 % hydro (there is less than 1% wind/solar) Coal is really cheap and environmentally the worst of all. Using solar and then splitting H2O is just too too expensive for this economy. But, renewables are great for reducing our electric grid capacity requirement for "peak" Its going to be nuclear "my friends" (hate that line).. Will someone please pass this on to Obama before he loses this election? He is getting some really stupid advice and he's going to make a fool of himself unless someone explains it to him. Is it some un-educated environmental group telling him to remain silent on the "N" word? McCain is scoring some huge points on this issue and its not necessary. Nuclear is the bridge we have to take.. the French and the Japonese are not stupid and they have figured it out.
      By the way we need a new generation of of designs.... liquid metal cooled NOT water. We need them all made and designed in America. Right now the French, Indian, Japonese and Russian companies will make all the money. This will be the new "moon project" and its going to need huge government oversight. It must have a Democratic legislature and executive branch or it will get all messed up. Go Obama!

    • 3 years ago
  • Hawkmang
  • dontforgetthepenny
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  
    • dontforgetthepenny:

      With biodiesel, all you do is pour it in your fuel tank and drive off. No refining or modifications necessary.

      Flex Fuel vehicles have been around for about 20 years. They can run on either gasoline, or E-85(85% ethanol) whichever you choose to put in.

      Flex Fuel vehicles are rolling off the assembly lines now(1.5 million this year). They cost no more, or minimally more than conventional vehicles. There are currently about 8 million Flex Fuel capable vehicles on the road in the US.

    • 3 years ago
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  

    • From brad62:
      ------"M.I.T. Thinks that can solve every problem.. They can not.
      We've had people in the early 1900 hundreds, that have said;;; We have made a car, that runs on peanut oil.
      Hemp Oil
      Rape Seed Oil.
      Why are we so dependend on Petroleum? "-------------

      We have them right now, diesel engines, they run on vegetable oil with no modification whatever. Rudolf Diesel first designed his engine to run on vegetable oils.
      The first Model T Ford was designed to run on ethanol, as were most other engines of the time. That was all they had.
      Until 1920 when the Volstead Act (Prohibition) made the manufacture, sale or distribution of alcohol illegal. Guess who were the largest benefactors to the temperance movement in favor of prohibition?
      John D. Rockefeller and J. Paul Getty.
      Ethanol is a superior fuel to petroleum gasoline.
      Indy Race Curcuit cars use 100% ethanol and have used alcohol as a fuel for over 35 years. Most other professional race curcuits also use alcohol in one form or another, either pure ethanol or E-85. Nascar uses E-85.

    • 3 years ago
  • ChieftanMews
    • 0
      ChieftanMews  

    • Awesome stuff. Though it seems our congress much prefers shouting about finite domestic oil reserves 10 years of drilling away-With a little congressional cohesion-processes like this or biomimicry might truly be just a few years around the corner..Let's fund solutions, not prolong American suffering under the the tyrannous economic stranglehold of foreign energy dependance

    • 3 years ago
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  
    • ChieftanMews:

      -----"....processes like this or biomimicry might truly be just a few years around the corner..Let's fund solutions, not prolong American suffering under the the tyrannous economic stranglehold of foreign energy dependance "-----------

      PetroSun is making biodiesel right now from saltwater algae in Rio Hondo TX in seawater holding ponds. They are producing 4.4 million gal/yr in ponds covering 1180 acres.

      Rangeline Fuels is constructing a 100 million gal/yr plant to produce ethanol from wood logging and millwork waste right now in Soperton GA.

      Spain produces 750 million gal/yr ethanol from wood and plant waste fiber right now.

      There are many companies in the US that are producing, selling and installing, wind and solar equipment right now in the US.

      If you really want to fund alternative energies that will end our dependence on foreign energy, do your research and invest money in US companies that will produce and distribute biofuels, wind, solar, and other energy choices.

      This is a free market and a free country. The money comes from free investors like yourself. And the profits that are going to oil will return to you when it is replaced by biofuels.

    • 3 years ago
  • brad62
  • brad62
    • +1
      brad62  
    • Image

    • M.I.T. Thinks that can solve every problem.. They can not.
      We've had people in the early 1900 hundreds, that have said;;; We have made a car, that runs on peanut oil.
      Hemp Oil
      Rape Seed Oil.
      Why are we so dependend on Petroleum?

    • 3 years ago
  • ihateyou
  • maxamust
  • ocanada
  • PlatoTacius
    • 0
      PlatoTacius  

    • Two of the biggest problems right now, are that we are addicted to oil and that we have been made slaves to debt by the banks...the developement of alternative energies should help us to break the vicious cycle of the addiction and the debt...as the price of oil has risen, so has the price of everything else...

      However, both of the problems are rooted, not in the actions of the people, but in how the systems and the people are manipulated by the selfish and greedy egoistic few...

    • 3 years ago
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  

    • im sure indoor plumbing at some piont in history was a costly endevour, but i think we can all agree it was so worth it. plus its the sun people, i mean seriously, like we are going to run out of the sun ever? if we do we will have bigger concerns then energy costs.

    • 3 years ago
  • jacijacijaci
  • geneonlbk
    • 0
      geneonlbk  

    • again and again people are demonstrating that the entrenched scientific community is as usual a reactionary inhibiting force in our society. This time MIT is saying that the scientists who still contend that it takes a large amount energy to produce hydrogen are WRONG!!!

      Sadly our politicians are being supported by BIG OIL so we are unlikely to get anything but misinformation and foot dragging from them. Look at the national dialog about off-shore drilling instead of a discussion about the best tack to take towards hydrogen and renewable non-polluting energy.

    • 3 years ago
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  
    • geneonlbk:

      If YOU invest in biofuels, wind, solar and other energy sources it does not matter in the least what politicians and Big Oil do. They only control the market if WE let them. If consumers would all invest a couple of hunded dollars in biofuels production companies and use their own products oil would be deader than a fat rabbit in a dog park. And all those record profits going to the oil companies would be going to the biofuel investors.

    • 3 years ago
  • Virtual_Will_Rogers
    • 0
      Virtual_Will_Rogers  

    • This Earth is super old.....Mankind has nearly destroyed it in 100 years.......all of this knowledge was known at the first of the twentieth century.....I have a small antique wind generator from the twenties....it powered batteries for camping trips......the choice to go with the combustible gasoline engine.....instead of natural forces.....was made....you guessed it......for financial gain.....Henry Ford.....let his workers take one day off so they could shop at his store.....slavery never stopped.....it just took on a larger...more diverse.... group of slaves.......Golden Ruler....Will.............

    • 3 years ago
  • PlatoTacius
    • 0
      PlatoTacius  

    • As more funds are appropriated for the futher development of innovative solar power we will definitely see ourselves coming out of the darkness and into the light of this NEW AGE of TECHNOLOGY...but solar does not stand alone...we need also to further explore and develope all of the alternative energy possibilities...

      Good post, Jan...

    • 3 years ago
  • Beta_Boy
    • 0
      Beta_Boy  

    • The developing nations of the world have a right to try and provide the quality of life freely available to the west. The only problem at the moment is that they seem to be making the same mistakes. Hopefully the continuing development in cheap and renewable energy sources will allow a happy equilibrium to exist.

      Personally I have reservations about bio fuels as I doubt they can scale, they are after all something that is consumed at great cost. These other sources however need heavy investment in R&D and should be a priority for every developed nation rather than the quick fix solution of offshore drilling.

      Keep fighting the fight and stay current!

    • 3 years ago
  • JanforGore
    • 0
      JanforGore  

    • Yes, this is brilliant. Using a compound in water to separate the hydrogen and oxygen to feed the solar cells for whenever you want power. The video at the link posted shows a diagram of how this would work.... you could even power up your electric car as well as your home with this. And on a larger scale, well, this could catapult solar power to the mainstream. Although, i do worry about areas that have droughts, but if the water used to make this power could be recycled through this system instead of wasted it's a win win. Very exciting.

    • 3 years ago
  • twodee
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  
    • twodee:

      LOL, thanks, interesting website.

      Only forgot one thing. 1,000 years before the earliest date listed in the 1700*s, the ancient Anasazi Indians in the southwest US were building their cliffdwellings only on south facing cliffs to catch the winter sun. Passive solar heating, but solar heating none the less.

    • 3 years ago
  • KylieStone
  • JanforGore
  • jubal
  • Wetdog
    • 0
      Wetdog  
    • KylieStone:

      So what? The idea is AT LEAST 70 years old, I remember seeing an article about hydrolysis(splitting the hydrogen/oxygen bonds in water) in the 1960's when I was a kid in some Popular Science Magazines from the 30's my dad had. All of the "experts" concluded that hydrolysis required too much energy and solar power was too feeble to be any good.

      LOL, there was also an article in one of them about the new and revolutionary idea of launching aircraft from ships. All of the "experts" claimed that the idea was preposterous and stupid, cumbersome and just not practical. The only real naval power was and would always continue to be dreadnaught battleships that relied on heavy armor and huge long range cannons. Aircraft Carriers would never replace battleships. So much for the "experts".

    • 3 years ago
  • twodee
    • +1
      twodee  

    • interesting. is there a problem with how mush water is needed for the process? Is the water byproduct clean afterward?

      Take all the subsidies away from Nuclear and this kind of thing can be up and running in just a few years vs. 10

    • 3 years ago
  • jh64487
  • onechance
    • 0
      onechance  

    • BRILLIANT. I'm so amazed at how much we as a civilization are able to accomplish. Imagine what would be possible without all the corruption and greed that slows this all down?

    • 3 years ago
  • 1779fleet
    • 0
      1779fleet  

    • As Jonny Cochran would say: "If it can not store you are out of power by four"

      Hydrogen or some other chemical storage is the answer.

      Treat the energy crisis like your hair is on fire!!!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • alternator
    • 0
      alternator  
    • 1779fleet:

      Actually, this _is_ hydrogen storage.

      The real story here is that Nocera's team has created a catalyst that 'cracks' water into its component gases without the use of precious metals and requiring little energy input.

      The part of the storage system that isn't being talked about is how the oxygen and hydrogen it generates are actually used to provide energy.

      Here, the options are either combustion or the resource-intensive fuel-cell technology currently under development by the auto industry (and others).

      So, if you're not yet a fan of the "hydrogen economy" being sold to us, my suggestion is to look elsewhere.

    • 3 years ago
  • Wetdog
  • JudahEvan
    • 0
      JudahEvan  

    • This would be an excellently beneficial development, especially for the worlds poorest communities. Jumping right into sustainable, renewable energy sources as a way to focus underdeveloped areas to push forward would seem to be the perfect type of incentive for all.

      We need household tax credits for solar panels right now. While the price is high, only the richest can possibly afford it, so the tax credit would be an incentive for them to go buy the stuff now. The companies making the panels now will thusly continue to stay in the game: modifying, innovating, and eventually bringing costs down -- when this prototype is ready, the market would then be so ready to kick it up and get going. Night Power = Awesome.

    • 3 years ago
  • Virtual_Will_Rogers
    • 0
      Virtual_Will_Rogers  

    • Hydrogen......Oxygen.......separate..... two volatile forces that can change many of our Current problems........together......the lifeblood of the Universe.........Golden Ruler....Will...........

    • 3 years ago
  • jay_ct
    • 0
      jay_ct  

    • Great to hear they are publishing this information so others can help develop the technology. I really believe if we invest heavily in solar and wind they both could be vastly improved and widely implemented in well under 10 years.

    • 3 years ago
  • rightbrain
  • shroomfairy
    • 0
      shroomfairy  

    • This is great. But, I've seen a lot of solar powered home that store power and they aren't in the dark. Couldn't they use these storage batteries on a large scale?

    • 3 years ago
  • twodee
  • HiImGuss
  • alternator
  • JanforGore
  • gentjim
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