Solar power for 2 dollars a day!
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- JanforGore
- added this
That's the concept behind Oakland, Calif.-based Veranda Solar, a start-up founded last year by Capra J'neva and Emilie Fetscher, recent graduates of the product design program at Stanford University. J'neva and Fetscher dreamed up attractive, flower-shaped solar panels as part of their master's project at the design school. "We created a starter solar system that expands as your budget does," J'neva says.
Their plan is to sell Veranda panels at roughly $600 each later this year, provided it raises more funding. The panels snap together, so people will be able to buy just one to start and add more later on if they like. The solar inverter, which converts the direct current (DC) electricity from the panels to alternating current (AC) electricity that can be used in the electric grid, plugs right into a wall socket.
One of the biggest problems with solar panels is the high cost. Before rebates, the price can easily exceed $30,000 to outfit a residential roof. J'neva began asking who really wanted to have solar power and realized it was the 20-something generation--people who typically have smaller budgets but aspire to live greener lifestyles. Most of the interested customers she knows over 30 are looking to spend $2,400 to $4,000 on panels; folks in their twenties will spend much less.
Article Continues:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/02/veranda-solar-greentech-technology-ecotech09_ve...
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- groups:
- Community, Tech, Green, Earth and Science
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- tags:
- News, Green, Tech, Earth and Science, 8 more
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Anyother
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Ah! That`s great! Solar batteries are our future energy source..
- 4 years ago
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Anyother
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QuitItAlready
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That would be fantastic.
- 4 years ago
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QuitItAlready
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ddhboy
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The real turning point for solar is when it becomes cheaper to get energy from than oil. That's when we'll see a real revolution and unfortunately for our friends around the world rushing to catch up with us will be left in the dust, especially India.
- 4 years ago
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ddhboy
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SW2
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Every new house should require solar panels as standard and the energy companies should be forced to buy back any unused energy and put it back into the grid.
Surely if every household had solar panels then we would be making a decent effort.
- 4 years ago
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SW2
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awc1
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I think this is great news. I project the prices becoming much more affordable in time.
- 4 years ago
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awc1
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denport
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Great to have so many trying to do something.
- 4 years ago
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denport
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Owlman1953
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That's beautiful,I like to see good ideas ,Thank You
- 4 years ago
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Owlman1953
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lvp
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Wow, this sounds like a great opportunity for many.
- 4 years ago
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lvp
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galwayman
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This is wonderful! you don't have to own a home to use solar energy and unlike putting them on a roof,if you live where it snows like I do bet they are easy to remove to clean them too!
- 4 years ago
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galwayman
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Olfard101
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The cost is still too high and they have no data on how much these panels would create in a day. Like others where does this $2.00 per day come from and are they aware of other products currently in testing phases around the world such as creating panels much as certain flooring is made by rolling it out. That in Great Britain and Canada there are companies working on paints that have cells within so you can paint your house and it becomes one large panel. There are too many ideas coming at once to justify a 600.00 per panel as inexpensive while comparing it to what?
- 4 years ago
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Olfard101
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AveryMoore
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unclecharlie writes,
"FOUR GRAND FOR A BLACK DISC? I don't care how energy efficient it is, why do solar cells have to be the most d*** expensive "home improvement" items?"
Breathtaking credulity, CHARLIE.
On the off chance that you aren't kidding us, you've earned full marks for rewriting the words, but apparently you suffered a bout of aphasia?
Let's provide some helpful context for you.
Does that $4000 buy something?
What does the article actually say? Is it only one black disc? Or several? Doesn't each disc do something other than just sit there? Doesn't the array provide an independent source of power to your home? Isn't that right?
Charlie, do you prefer to remain hostage to oil and energy companies to the end of your days? If so, why?
Does the concept of paying more (once) to suddenly pay infinitely less (from then on) not make sense to you? Is it too foreign sounding? Seem tricky?
How does "not caring" how energy efficient these infernal DISCS are solve any of your energy cost problems now or in the future?
For instance, when manipulated energy prices ramp up again, beyond your means, what are your options then?
It can happen again. Exactly as it did in California thanks to ENRON. When just plain folks got to choose whether to pay for energy, or pay the other costs of staying alive and having a roof over their heads.
You don't get why new technology is "expensive"? Can't figure out why innovations cost money?
Opportunities have costs. For some reason you see the costs but you never see the opportunity. Are you sure you aren't working at a senior level in Big Auto?
Charlie, I think you need to get out more. Talk to your nieces and nephews. The ones who think things through and see advantages that help them stretch a buck.
- 4 years ago
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AveryMoore
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unclecharlie
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FOUR GRAND FOR A BLACK DISC? I don't care how energy efficient it is, why do solar cells have to be the most d*** expensive "home improvement" items?
- 4 years ago
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unclecharlie
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milalea
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misses the biggest point- how much electricity does it produce!?
- 4 years ago
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milalea
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AveryMoore
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milalea:
Yep. A vital bit of useful information is missing.
And people wonder why journalism is so despised these days?
- 4 years ago
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AveryMoore
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AveryMoore
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bashirdr writes,
"Great, but what about when it's cloudy?"
What about it? Solar radiation is just that - radiation, and the technology, assuming it's up to par, can take advantage of that radiation regardless of what we can see when it's cloudy.
So I would modify your question to ask - what is the panel's capacity for absorbing all levels of solar radiation?
You write, "I also don't get how they can say it costs $2/day."
It may work like this. If someone buys a house they are unlikely to pay for it all in one lump sum. The actual page reference above puts the cost of covering an entire roof at $30,000.
One way of calculating that final cost is averaging it per day. Again modifying your own question - "How long before it costs $0 per day? How many panels to 'cover' a roof"
As to $2 per day? That's what it is now. When the tech gets smarter? Think it will cost more than that?
My only concern would be eventual resale, and there's a whole rest of the world waiting for what we might cast off for something better.
The idea that the oil cartel, the energy cartel, and with their money - political control - is vulnerable to extinction, I think appeals to just about everybody these days.
The goodwill which once existed for these monstrosities they have squandered. The sooner we can be rid of their socially toxic practices the better.
- 4 years ago
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AveryMoore
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krush_productions
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That's great, I'm ordering right now!
- 4 years ago
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krush_productions
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krush_productions
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krush_productions:
...prototype damn, waiting list it is...
- 4 years ago
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krush_productions
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SDLN
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I love the idea, but $600 is steep right about now.
- 4 years ago
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SDLN
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stephenthomson
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this article shows up twice on the homepage, once under "green" and once under "tech"
i think this is proof in the pudding: the old homepage was a better design.
- 4 years ago
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stephenthomson
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bashirdr
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Great, but what about when it's cloudy?
How much power does one of these output? Can I run my refrigerator on it? My hot water heater? A microwave, a coffee pot?
How do I get my appliances to draw power from the collector and not the grid?
What are these things made out of? How renewable are the materials, how energy intensive is the process?
I also don't get how they can say it costs $2/day. Once you have the panels, don't they just make free energy for you? So the cost of the electricity would depend on how long you keep the panels, right?
- 4 years ago
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bashirdr
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kcfoxie
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bashirdr:
Great, but what about when it's cloudy?
> My 7v "solar iphone charger" that I got on Ebay pulls down 1 volt in the rain. This was a $5 panel. So, it will work, the question is how good is their panel tecnology... and can it transform other light forms (say Flourescent, like most calculators) into electricity?How much power does one of these output?
The article does not say. I would assume a minimum of 12V as that is what most devices need (at a minimum) to operate on. It might be 24v.Can I run my refrigerator on it?
>With enough, yes. For how long, I don't know. There are also DC refrigerators for RVs and Mobile Homes that use less power (don't know if that is a compromise your willing to make)My hot water heater?
>Those don't need electricity. A solar hot water heater is essentially a large black tank inside a large black box with a glass top that sits in the sun and gets hot and stays hot for days. Most Floridians use this technology as a "pool heater" it is not very expensive and retains heat on cloudy days. Do note you cannot take excessively long shows and maintain the hot water; not without another unit (or two) to keep the heat flowing. Regardless the lifespan of these things tops 40 years in most instances, the average hot water heater lasts perhaps 10.A microwave, a coffee pot?
>Coffee pot, yes, microwave... depends on its power requirements.How do I get my appliances to draw power from the collector and not the grid?
>Plug them into the inverter instead of your wall outlet.What are these things made out of?
>Article does not say. Would be nice to know.How renewable are the materials, how energy intensive is the process?
>There are formulas that can equate this. They're the same type that verify that a H3 is less dangerous to the environment when factoring energy used to create it vs a Prius. However I don't know for this. If it lasts 10 years, however, I doubt that it's going to be "that bad."I also don't get how they can say it costs $2/day. Once you have the panels, don't they just make free energy for you?
> it costs about $2 a day over an unknown number of years to justify the cost of the panel. You have to look at the initial investment over number of hours of power it can produce over number of years it will work .... somehow they came up with for $2 a day..So the cost of the electricity would depend on how long you keep the panels, right?
> In theory, yes. If you kept them for 2 years and then sold them (say you move) it would have cost more than $2 a day. I know that my average daily expenditure for power is $3.93 (based on last months' bill); so I can see how for some this may not be very economical. The big benefit is that you significantly reduce the interruption rate to which you have power loss with solar + batteries + grid backup.I use solar panels and battery backups on most of my communication and small electric appliances (foreman grille, blender). We constantly lose power in August where I live, and after the first 3 days heat wave with no AC I immediately started buying fans and tint for my windows, and battery backups and solar panels to power it all.
The big advantage with this stuff is it can be used most anywhere with sunlight.
- 4 years ago
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kcfoxie
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bashirdr
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bashirdr:
Hey, kcfoxie, thanks for taking the time to write that reply! Certainly a lot more thought out and rational than anything AveryMoore has had to say.
I've never heard of that hot water heater technology. I'm not sure it would work in southwestern PA where it gets mighty cold in the winter, or in urban areas where you can't keep them outside (do they all fit on the roof?). The most encouaging technology I've seen for heating water is the little box that zaps the water as it goes by. Doesn't get terribly hot, but hot enough. We have them where I work. Never taken a shower powered by those things though.
And it looks like a lot of people are thrown by the $2 number. It looks like a complete BS number pulled out of thin air or perhaps someone's hindquarters. I spend around $30/month on electricity in my one-bedroom apartment, so $2 a day doesn't sound all that attractive.
Still, it seems like once you spend $600, that panel will make free energy for you for the lifetime of the panel (or do these things somehow cost money to operate!?). So we need to know how much grid energy one panel replaces and how long they last, and we'll get a better idea of the economics of owning one.
- 4 years ago
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bashirdr
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kcfoxie
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bashirdr:
The units that I saw were actually on Discovery channel, I wish I could remember the show. It was a very simple concept/design. It could be supplemented with something like salt to retain that heat; as for roof fixtures... it's possible. I want to have a friend design a custom fitting for the flat top roof condos I live in and present it to the board. We have community water; but the heater is on the owners' responsibility. We need to overhaul how the water is pumped to the units anyway; and I figure we can have a building-based heater system. So, it's possible but I do not know if you could buy a kit. I associate solar with DIY. Regarding location, the units that were produced were claimed to hold heat for a long time. You are probably right, since I know PA is very cold and rusts cars apart quickly. Then again, the salt insulation might make it work. I'm not entirely sure. However these are avenues one can start to research if they're contemplating such a rennovation. I wish these things were standard building practice.
The $2 figure may be BS, but I assume they have worked up a cost figure based on some published average electric cost. marketing is always vastly different from the engineering department.
If I had a $30 monthly power bill I'd not be interested in this either; but I've averaged over $100/month since I moved in here 3 years ago!
- 4 years ago
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kcfoxie
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Bren589
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this is better then paying an all out high electric bill or gas bill to heat with. Planning on doing alot of solar work on the house i am just buying. thanks for sharing Jan
- 4 years ago
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Bren589
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2KGS4
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Ya I am getting tired of paying outrageous electric bills despite living in the darkness 3/4 of my time and hardly ever using the microwave or stoves. Part of the reason our economy is so effed is because of the rising cost of fuel and natural gas used in homes.
- 4 years ago
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2KGS4
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sarahlane
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Wow.. and in my own backyard! Very cool.
- 4 years ago
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sarahlane
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drewsuf721
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I'm in my 20's and would spend more than $4,000 for solar panels.
Solar won't be the only savior, but if we all invest in renewable energy it will certainly be the a large industry.
My hope is to embrace the tidal and hydro energy on the coastlines.
- 4 years ago
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drewsuf721
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Barca_Kid
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wow this looks soo cool and a good way to help save energy and help our enviornment at the same time...i want to get one!
- 4 years ago
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Barca_Kid
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freshfish
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Just an idea but why not make all the tinting and curtains into solar collectors our cars too.. think how much power we could capture on a sitting car in the parking lot.
- 4 years ago
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freshfish
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ruberube
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Please God - help science save the planet!
- 4 years ago
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ruberube
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S3th
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ruberube:
Asking a fictional character to help the corrupted to save the apathetic.
Beauty!
- 4 years ago
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S3th
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csmonut
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Innovation....so damn happy to see all of this, Jan.
Glad you're keeping up on this and keeping us informed. - 4 years ago
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csmonut
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stopnoise
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I can't wait to have these portable solar things to hook to the house and save energy from the energy monopoly grid.
- 4 years ago
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stopnoise
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Matericia
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How can I invest in this company?
- 4 years ago
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Matericia
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JanforGore
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Matericia:
This is their website with a way to contact them here.
- 4 years ago
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JanforGore
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masterzip
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one day we will all have these simple, cheap, and solar devices,...long gone will be the concept of delivering energy over thousands of miles from energy storage/distribution facilities. Long gone will be the manufacturing of energy on a massive scale,..energy will become local and personal.
I also read a while back that clothing we wear will power our phones and PDAs through micro-solar stitched into the fabric.
Tesla once said that when we truly understand electricity, we will be living as one w/ nature. - 4 years ago
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masterzip
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CreditFigaro
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masterzip:
All well and good, but just in case the sun goes out, we need to have back up nuclear generators. Diversity is key. Just because we have tons of petrol and uranium stacked away, doesn't mean we have to use it... but it should be there.
- 4 years ago
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CreditFigaro
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advertisehere
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masterzip:
if the sun goes out i think we'll have more than just energy problems...
- 4 years ago
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advertisehere
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FrankFranklin
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masterzip:
Your words.....Not Mine
- 4 years ago
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FrankFranklin
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AveryMoore
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masterzip:
CreditFigaro,
If the sun "goes out"?
You seriously contend that anyone or anything could survive, "if the sun went out"?
If the best argument you can muster for a return to the nuclear scams of the past is solar extinction you need to rethink the problem.
- 4 years ago
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AveryMoore
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mcwally
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great to have on a mobile home?
- 4 years ago
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mcwally
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JanforGore
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I think the possibilities of this are limitless. It would be great for people who do not own a home and do not have the ability to place solar panels on the roof of where they live. Businesses, schools, etc could also benefit. And while I posted about a world at 4 degrees warming, that is really not to depress people but to move them to understand that unless we band together and see the innovations and opportunity we have to avoid that scenario we will reach it. Innovations like this that can be used in many ways and expanded upon are just part of the solution to avoiding that scenario, or at the very least delaying it.
- 4 years ago
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JanforGore
