Genetically engineered monkeys pass green-glowing DNA to offspring
source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKTRE54Q4AN20090527?feedType=RSS&feedName=od...
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- JanforGore
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So, is this innovative scientific research, or animal cruelty?
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- ras_menelik
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El_Maestro_Djn
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mr d i like the stuff about the monkeys i dont know but is the best thing ever and is very interesting i love it
- 2 years ago
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El_Maestro_Djn
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omshaantih
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thank you Jan...I hope this makes it on current TV because more people should be concerned about this barberic and useless treatment of animals! The science community is out of hand and they need to learn some ethics or basic morals!
- 3 years ago
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omshaantih
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omshaantih
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this is animal cruelty and it must stop!!
- 3 years ago
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omshaantih
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JanforGore
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Ethical Aspects of Genetic Modification of Animals
"1.5 In our societies, besides the potential benefit we can expect from these techniques, there are concerns, for example:
- Harm to animal health and welfare;
- Impact on human health;
- Animals are being used as mere instruments for human benefit and interests;
- It is seen as an infringement of animal "integrity" or of the "intrinsic" or "inherent" value of animals;
- It is seen as "unnatural for example because it transgresses species boundaries;
- It is seen as taking environmental risks the consequences of which are difficult to calculate;
- It is seen as a slippery slope towards eugenic applications on human beings."
end of excerpt.
And as I stated in my original comment, I am not against scientific research (which is why I wish governments would rely more on scientific research regarding global warming.) However, in the case of genetic modification between species, I see it as absolutely unnecessary and unethical. Science does wonderful things but it isn't always right either. Those who think it is always right no matter what it does and that it can do no wrong are to me no different than religious zealots who believe religion can do no wrong.
This is a very slippery slope we are on regarding genetic modification and its intrusion into the natural order of nature. How soon before we are implanting genes into humans that are believed to do certain things? Would they then also be patented traits so that even the humans possessing them would be owned by a corporation? We do not even know the full ramifications of GMOs from that test tube food in our bloodstreams, but tests are already showing health effects.
Are we to assume it would be ethical to make a society of genetically altered humans or animals to exhibit only the traits we want to see? I personally believe there are just some boundaries we should never cross, and this is one of them. It not only infringes on nature, it infringes on freedom.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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judiestar
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And I don't get how glowing green monkeys will help them find "new drugs" for Parkinson's? Sounds more like a "because we can" kind of motivation.
- 3 years ago
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judiestar
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JanforGore
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judiestar:
I don't understand that either. That was totally unnecessary. But yes, probably done to see if it could be done, and it is scary because GMO crap is already floating in our atmosphere as well and more than likely causing health effects we will never know about.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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judiestar
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Horrible. What science is this? Genetic engineering is not worth the risk and scientists should leave it alone before some mutant escapes the lab and eats 35 people.
- 3 years ago
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judiestar
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JanforGore
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Some simply do not understand the ramifications of genetic modificaiton. No wonder Monsanto gets away with it regarding our food! It is amazing how staunchly Delia defends the arrogance of humanity.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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DeliaTheArtist
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JanforGore:
When did I defend the "arrogance of humanity"?
I don't think that keeping an open mind about issues is arrogant. It may be easy for you to naysay genetic research and be very black and white about it, but it's not black and white for me. Everyday I work with people who have conditions, diseases and disabilities with genetic origins. I would love to see a cure or better treatment for the people I work with and all of those afflicted with such illnesses. Rest assured that genetic research is not the end all be all of treatment options, we work with a variety of natural, behavioral and medical interventions- but I am certainly interested in progress of understanding genetic code and seeing some of these things become preventable in my lifetime.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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current89
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JanforGore:
@Jan
The irony in your statements is evident, you presume that you have the right moral compass and that you are correct, and that all the scientists who are working on these gm experiments are incorrect. Your arrogance discredits you.
- 3 years ago
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current89
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PajamaDan
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See all these responses elevating humans' worth on Earth? They claim human life is what counts, nothing else. What makes us better than our fellow animals? Our ability to control their lives? Us atop the food chain?
If anything,... other animal lives should be valued more than ours,... I mean,... WE'RE the ones effing up this planet! And shortly after they die,... we die. What? Diseases need curing? You mean, the diseases that humans perpetuate? We can be selfish no more. Big picture.
We play God daily. And it seems like it's catching up to us. What can we expect? When we play God,... how long before Armageddon happens? - 3 years ago
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PajamaDan
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EclecticBadger
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This was a "proof of principle" experiment. Proof that swapping a specific gene cannot only noticeably affect a foetus, but can also be passed on from transgenic adults to their offspring.
However, mice already share 75% of the genome with humans and have already been successfully used in researching the same causes of human conditions without the need for fluorescence.
- 3 years ago
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EclecticBadger
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DeliaTheArtist
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Animalia, there is no reason to be angry and it's silly to assume that no one here has read any "real literature" on the subject. I linked you to Wikipedia simply because it has a huge list of the advances in science that can be credited to animal research as opposed to finding them all separately. You may have passionate feelings on this issue but animal testing and bioethics in general are certainly debatable; just because people don't completely agree with you is no reason to get so annoyed! While there are many bad things about the pharmaceutical industry, not all scientists in medical fields are part of some money hungry conspiracy to kill people. I thank you for your information and will check out the books recommended. In addition, here are some interesting links talking about animal testing:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815241,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/080212-bad-animal-testing.html
http://www.aclam.org/education/guidelines/position_animalUse.html
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
The links I posted have interviews with "real scientists", but I understand where you are coming from. I will most certainly check out the books (I have a LONG LIST to go to Barnes and Noble with from many convos on Current, lol!)
I am not "staunch" on this matter as Jan would have people believe, indeed I have a very open mind about pretty much everything and am always looking for new information. As I explained to her, it is not as easy for me to be black and white on the subject of genetic modification as I work with the developmentally disabled field and experience first hand what people go through who have genetic conditions and disabilities with genetic origins. Seeing research progress for better treatments and possible cures is great, and obviously pros and cons need to be weighed in these matters, which is where bioethics come in.
While I may not be an animal activist and frankly that side of the ethics does not bother me as much as it does to you or Jan, the conversation that activist bring up needs to happen to help raise these questions and progress methods that scientists use.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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Denica_Cassandra
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this is disgusting - they have no right to do this to animals.
the genetic engineering and patenting of plants and animals is wrong. it will cause more poverty by seed sterilization and animals shouldn't be treated this way - for what purpose? :( - 3 years ago
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Denica_Cassandra
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fun_size
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Denica_test:
They aren't hurting these animals nor are they selling them to make a profit. Its for scientific research. I don't see what the problem is.
- 3 years ago
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fun_size
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DeliaTheArtist
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animalia- to argue that human testing is what advanced these medical breakthroughs may be true but is incomplete without the initial animal research aspect. You also claim a money making scheme and alternatives, yet "Scientists must prove there is no alternative to receive U.S. federal funding. Approval for the right to use animals comes through an Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee, which exists at all U.S. research facilities using animals for federally funded research." (http://www.livescience.com/health/080212-bad-animal-testing.html)
As I stated before, it's not just animal rights groups or activists who want to lessen and eventually stop animal testing, it's everyone. The more most "accurate, ethical and less expensive" methods will survive, indeed we've seen many changes to the practice of animal testing itself due to bioethics conversations. White the alternatives you mentioned, like in vitro testing, are great and indeed are being used and further researched, we need more advances in these methods before scientists feel the need for animal testing has been eliminated.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
While I agree that human testing is of course an important aspect to it, I disagree that animal research was not- obviously human trails are major breakthroughs, but much research is done on animals before that phase, and not all of it is about the specific illness or disease- much of it has to do with researching how bodies and genes work. Also I'm not totally convinced that "Many would have come out much sooner if nonhuman animals were not a part of it." Perhaps you could provide me with some source information for those claims?
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
I posted a link and discussed other treatments in one of the responses above.
I don't see any reason to get annoyed; I think this is a very civil and informative conversation. I mention in the other response that I think your information is accurate, but somewhat incomplete, as it doesn't take into consideration the preliminary research and knowledge from animal testing trials that lead to the human trail breakthroughs. With regard to polio, I have read in several places that Salk's Polio vaccine was origianlly cultivated in rhesus monkey kidney cells, is this incorrect? Even if there was further delay, should we throw out the lessons learned from animal research in those instances?
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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current89
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Yep, what Delia said. Animal testing (non-human) shouldn't be the be all, end all, but it's necessary. I don't find it immoral. For if the long term consequences of regulated animal testing prove to be beneficial, as they have in the past, it should be used, if they don't however, we should not continue with it.
On that note, theoretically speaking, genetic manipulation and testing could be very beneficial. but alas, I'm quite sure the folks on this thread have their minds made up.
--------------This Wikipedia article, which has a good amount of citations shows the medical advances produced from animal testing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_animal_testing#Medical_advances
- 3 years ago
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current89
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current89
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current89:
"it was human testing that was responsible for the advances."
In you opinion, but it's FACT that non-human testing played a major role as well.
"Flipping a coin would be far more accurate, ethical, and less expensive."
Well, I don't really care about expenses. I do sympathize with your feelings that it would be more ethical but I respectfully disagree. It's quite ethical if the testing proves to be worthwhile, which it very well may be.
- 3 years ago
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current89
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current89
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current89:
It seems you're quite upset. I'm going to be bluntly honest, i care about the well being of non homosapiens, however I contend that humans come first. And I'll say it again as long as the research works, and continues to provide some results, as it has in the past, I'll support it. Furthermore you've made wild accusations about scientists. It seems were coming from two different schools of though. At the core of your argument, you feel it is immoral to test non-human animals, I don't.
- 3 years ago
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current89
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fun_size
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current89:
"Less humans would suffer and die if it were abolished."
Really? Only so much can be done through computer models and lab work. How would testing humans lead to less human deaths?
HUMAN TESTING is what is really screwed up and that is what you are advocating? Something doesn't add up...
- 3 years ago
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fun_size
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cindydupree
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funny how people will protest against the use of animals but its ok that they use human life...how screwed up are ya...these test are not right to be used on humans or animals
- 3 years ago
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cindydupree
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JanforGore
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We are talking about GENETIC MODIFICATION in this case.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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current89
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JanforGore:
And, your point being? have you ever thought she isn't against genetic modification?
- 3 years ago
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current89
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DeliaTheArtist
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Yes, there are many natural cures out there, but the statement that people are not researching or pursuing them is false. Also, there have been many advances in modern medicine thanks to animal research; the Polio vaccine is a good example of medicine obtained from trails on non-human primates.
"Is it really for scientific purposes, or to assuage our own arrogance that we are superior to them?" Why would scientists spend their whole lives studying and researching something in the name of arrogance as opposed to knowledge? I think that is quite an arrogant point of view in itself unless you have something to back it up. "Well, perhaps in time all of our babies will glow. Won't that be special?" This is fear mongering and it is unnecessary; the point of this research is not to make your babies glow and that's a ridiculous conclusion.
The point of this type of research is the study of genetics- how genetics are passed down, what type of things can be passed down, how they are transferred, etc. If we are able to understand these concepts we may be able to cure and prevent conditions that have a genetic component like Parkinson's, MS, some developmental disabilities and more.
Having said that, this of course is not the end all be all of science, which is constantly changing and improving. Non-animal testing solutions are continuously being researched and as technology advances, we will most likely see a decline in it's usage.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
I absolutely agree that there are certain drugs that don't work on animals like they do humans, diseases that humans don't get, etc. Also that money can affect scientific research, but that is not true in every case and the fact remains that there has been many advancements in science with animal research- like I said, I think that as technology increases and we are able to find more accurate and suitable non-animal solutions it's use will decline. It's not just animal rights groups who want that, it's scientists too!
"Also, how do you expect to study genetic components of Parkinson's and MS in animals that DO NOT GET Parkinson's and MS?" You don't test the genetic components of Parkinson's, you test genetic components period, then apply those lessons to learn how these conditions are transferred, how they can be prevented, etc.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
Vaccines like smallpox, hepatitis C and as mentioned, polio were helped by animal research. Blood transfusions, organ transplants and gene therapy as well.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
I think the use of animal research was much more than a sidenote. This link has some good information about the basic advancements from animal testing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_animal_testing
Frequently it's not the final vaccine but the underlying principles used to achieve it that result from animal testing. This is the same case we are seeing with the example of glowing monkeys- the point is genetic research itself that will lead to the development of medical advancements for Parkinson's, MS. When we are able to better understand genetic code and how conditions are passed from one animal to another, we can develop medicine, possibly cures and preventative methods for them.
If we were to see, for example, a Parkinson's vaccine go to human trail, you could very well make the argument that it was the human trials that were the scientific breakthrough as you have with these other examples; but that would be ignoring the education and understanding that came before that phase.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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JanforGore
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Of course, you perceive there is no pain so it isn't immoral. Well, perhaps in time all of our babies will glow. Won't that be special?
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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MissAmanda
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I am not sure how much a nautral gene from an animal in the wild (jellyfish) really harm the monkeys. it seems like something that is done to the egg/sperm of the parents and the babies are born a certain way.
if they are putting the monkeys though painful experiments afterwards, that is something to fight about, but the actual act of making a monkey "glow", I don't believe, is a painful or necessarily "bad" thing...
again, I don't know, glowing monkeys seem strange and pointless but scientists might find something important with this.
- 3 years ago
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MissAmanda
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MissAmanda
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MissAmanda:
again, to repeat myself...
"if they are putting the monkeys though painful experiments afterwards, that is something to fight about"
but putting a "glow gene" isn't what is harming them, so it seems.
- 3 years ago
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MissAmanda
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ras_menelik
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Glofish the 1st GE pet!
- 3 years ago
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ras_menelik
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JanforGore
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NATURAL REMEDIES. You know, from NATURE? The Amazon is full of them, but we're chopping them and burning them all down. Did you know that the Yew tree's bark has been seen as a cure for cancer?There are so many remedies available to us in the natural world that we aren't pursuing (and to clarify, I am not stating that we aren't pursuing ANY, I'm stating there are so many we still AREN'T pursuing) but we can inject animals with genes from other species without caring for what they may be experiencing or what it may do down the line if it mutates? Why do we do this? Is it really for scientific purposes, or to assuage our own arrogance that we are superior to them?
You don't need to torture and kill animals to find cures. And yes, genetically altering their makeup IS torture to me as they cannot speak for themselves. I suggest you then volunteer for one of these experiments if they are so safe to you.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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DeliaTheArtist
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There is so much misinformation on this thread it's disturbing, not only about how medicine is researched but WTF are you talking about, a pet to buy? These animals are not for public pet ownership! WTF are you talking about, no chance out in the wild? These are not wild animals!
And wait a minute- because you don't understand how this can help scientists with disease prevention, it's all sickening bullshit? Most modern medicines have been achieved with the help of animal research. One of the most prominent illnesses in the United States, Diabetes, is helped with the use of animal products. Would you prefer not to have those medicines available to us today?
I'm not saying Animal research is the only way to do things, but it continues to be crucial for scientists today to test medicines and unlock the secrets of genetics. What do you propose instead?
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist
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DeliaTheArtist:
I responded to some things on your other response, and I'll be back to talk more but I have to go to work! Very interesting convo.
- 3 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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csmonut
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DeliaTheArtist:
Watch and wait...there will be genetically engineered pets from this. Whether they glow green, red or blue.
These particular monkeys may not be for sale...but their offspring will.
Whether this is bad...I think it is, but it will ultimately be up to society to make that decision. - 3 years ago
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csmonut
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JanforGore
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yes, and what is sick is that they actually think this "progress."
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore
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csmonut
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Man has now engineered another "pet" people can buy at their local pet store, take it home, decide it's too much trouble, take it too the animal shelter, where it will be "put to sleep". (such a "nice" term for killing a perfectly healthy animal)
- 3 years ago
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csmonut
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animalia_libero [removed]
- This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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animalia_libero [removed]
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MissAmanda
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animalia_libero:
I did not know that primates did not suffer from those conditions, is there a link to back that up that I could read?
- 3 years ago
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MissAmanda
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freshfish
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that is wrong in so many ways, that poor animal has no chance in the wild talk about dooming an animal to captivity or extinction I see what they are trying to accomplish but please stop fucking with mother nature
- 3 years ago
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freshfish
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JanforGore
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From the article:
Japanese researchers have genetically engineered monkeys whose hair roots, skin and blood glow green under a special light, and who have passed on their traits to their offspring, the first time this has been achieved in a primate.
They spliced a jellyfish gene into common marmosets, and said on Wednesday they hope to use their colony of glowing animals to study human Parkinson's disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis or ALS.
Erika Sasaki and Hideyuki Okano of the Keio University School of Medicine in Japan used a virus to carry the gene for green fluorescent protein into monkey embryos, which were implanted into a female monkey, and four out of five were born with the gene throughout their bodies.
One fathered a healthy baby that also carried the new genes, they reported in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.
"The birth of this transgenic marmoset baby is undoubtedly a milestone," stem cell expert Dr. Gerald Schatten, of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, and Shoukhrat Mitalipov, of Oregon Health and Sciences University, wrote in a commentary in Nature.
"Transgenic marmosets are potentially useful models for research into infectious diseases, immunology and neurological disorders, for example," they wrote.
- 3 years ago
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JanforGore