Steve Jobs is a Horrible Manager

So by your logic, because he has more money than we do, he matters more, or is somehow above the typical rules of human decency? A persons net worth should not excuse them from being reprimanded for their tyrannical practices, and unfair/ego driven behavior.

I think the relevance really comes into play for me because if I happen to know that a company, or head of a company is a jerk, or treats their employees crappy, etc, I'm going to try to find an alternative to their product so as not to support the company/person and its/their behavior. (WalMart case in point.) I don't care what the people make each year. For me, its more that they have a since of humility and appreciate what they have.

I also agree that not every CEO or head of company is an evil jerk, though I don't know any personally, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, I can see your point. I would submit, however, that when you decide not to purchase a product from one company, you are "punishing" not just the CEO but everybody else at at that company AND its shareholders. I am not suggesting that they are lying awake at night worrying about it or even that your reasoning is not correct anyway -- after all, even if the rest of the company is made up of really nice people maybe you hate Jobs enought to more than make up the difference.

But my view is that I can't possibly take all those variables into account (Jobs is bad but his CFO is good but his CIO is even worse than Job, but Jobs' secretary is practically a SAINT, but...). So instead I just look at the quality of the product and the price. It just so happens that I don't have a single Apple product in my home or business (we all use Blackberries). But that is because I simply believe that their products are overpriced in comparison to the marginal additional value they offer my particular needs. I might feel differently if I were a graphic designer, I suppose.

Just different ways of looking at the same issue, I guess...

Usually apple products cost a little more that the groceries.

But really, the relevant thing in this is that a part of the company’s reputation is based in Jobs reputation. Everyone knows how apple revived when jobs came back and how he’s so involved in the process. People trust Jobs work. That’s why is attitudes become relevant, because part of this attitudes (the good ones) are attached to the product.

Hm, unaffected by the recession despite higher priced items when compared to others in the market, yeah Apple is certainly doing something correctly. Oh yeah, that's called succeeding within the business industry and a large part of that success is Steve Jobs.

Its called financial solvency. You don’t have to be a genius to accomplish it.

I suggest you stick to your strong suit of writing term papers for your philosophy professor. Leave the business to those of us who picked a real major.

LOL

You may not have to be a genius to accomplish it yet there are many companies who have fallen victim to the recession, big corporations and little companies. I never said Jobs was a genius, simply that he is a major part of Apple's continued success especially through this all around difficult financial time.

You may have chosen a real major, but I'll take the ability to read and write coherently over whatever it is that you can do, if anything.

There is no doubt that Steve Jobs is a brilliant businessman. He's been able to take what used to be a joke line of computers, and make it a social high point to own one. I still think that Apple overprices their products, especially their computers. Mac OSX, and a few neat hardware features (magnetized power cord is awesome) do not justify the huge price tag.

It really does come down to this: Windows, Mac, Linux, Unix; they are all just different ways of accomplishing the same end result. The only real difference is the ease of use, and the availability of software/hardware for the systems. Right now, Windows undeniably has the market wrapped around its finger, especially in the corporate world, but Mac and Linux are also undeniably gaining ground. Its coming down to which companies have the best marketing strategies and I think Apple may very well have that trophy in their corner.

Shock, Apple overprices their products for one very simple reason: Luxury pricing.

Many companies engage in the tactic, Apple just happens to be a company that does nothing else.

In apple's case, you take generic off-the-shelf PC parts, have the vender make tiny modifications, package them in a unique chassis and sell them for a significant percentage more than the competition does for the same hardware. Viola! Your hardware appears to the average consumer to be a better offering.

@ jaystx, whats a real major?

I don't think its irrelevant at all really. I believe that its important to know the practices of CEO's and other heads of big companies. Gives a good perspective as to how things are run, and why certain decisions are made. This is not the first time Steve Jobs being a bit of a jerk has come up either.

I have also noticed that when people talk about Bill Gates, there is no hesitation to point out every flaw he has ever had, but when you start talking about Steve Jobs, people get upset. I wonder why people guard Jobs and Apple so much, when they are really just an up and coming Microsoft wannabe with some neat toys.

Yes, the reality of the situation is Apple dominates no markets. But don't tell that to the people on Current...

What? Apple doesn't dominate the computer industry? Really? You're telling me Acer and Dell and Sony and other hardware companies sell more computers, and Microsoft sells more software? That can't be true. . .

Look it up buddy. Macs are dominated by PCs in terms of sales.

Macs are luxary products that only appeal to people with to much money. I can get a dell for $500 or a mac for like $1,500. Its not a hard choice when you are straped for cash.

I really hope you shrouded your statement under opaque sarcasm because if not you are really bad at reading rhetoric.

And my MacBook Pro is quite far and away much better than any Dell computer.

Maybe you are just a bad writer.

Aaand the crApple fanboys come out of the woodwork! Maybe you should have given Steve Jobs your liver, considering how much he means to you and your life.

You are just terrible at reading beyond surface meaning. It's okay, there are always intellectually illiterate people, especially on the internet.

Here is a career tip. If you are going to work in a creative field you have to get better at taking criticism.

I take criticism well from people who are smarter than me. From random internet posters who don't know rhetoric, there is no need to heed their criticism e.g. you.

Apple Haikus:

I adore Steve Jobs.
My friends all say he's the best,
So do commercials.

Apple computers:
"Better than PC!" They cried,
marketing success.

Steve killed his liver,
Too many drugs and liquor;
Deserving child dies.

The Apple iPhone:
Loved in the States, but
free in Japan. Why?

Steve Jobs sells Apple,
invests in Windows products.
Where is your faith, Steve?

Those are actually haiku poems, not limericks. You should submit one to the Rotten Tomatoes Show and get $100 bucks out of it!

Example of a (badly written) limerick:

There once was a man named Steve,
Who fell ill at work and had to leave.
They said "Sayonara, jerk!"
But now he's back at work,
And he's everyone's biggest pet peeve.

He's not a nice guy, but I have to thank him for hiring whomever is responsible for designing the Final Cut Pro software I'm editing on right now.

Thanks for the correction!

Awesome limerick!

Maybe I'll submit my poorly written haikus to Rotten Tomatoes. You should submit your limerick!

"He's not a nice guy, but I have to thank him for hiring whomever is responsible for designing the Final Cut Pro software I'm editing on right now."

You mean "whoever."

SHUT UP! No one cares about what you have to say about grammar! Did you know that screwing up grammar encourages the evolution of language? You don't write nor do you speak Old English or Victorian English so shut up and get a girlfriend and/or boyfriend to occupy yourself! Please also put your Current name in any future writings you may do so I may avoid them!

Thank you for the correction. As demonstrated by my limerick, I am not a writer.

I do what I can to help.

And while you sit at the computer at your house or behind the desk at your pencil pushing job bemoaning a man whom you have never met, said man is adding to his millions. But good for you for making your opinion known.

Hello jeckersly316,

I have met Steve Jobs. Also, I own two successful businesses. Suck my balls! :) I'm completely entitled to my informed opinion!

ps - what do you do?

I'm a college student and a writer. Must be quite a feat to own two successful businesses at only eleven years of age.

Oh, you're so clever with your factual analysis of this situation! Good luck being a 'writer', you depressed, cynical little college student, you!

'I'm a college student and a writer' - i.e., 'I do nothing and have nothing to show for it'

I am quite proud of myself for my getting published.

For a nineteen year old, going to school writing and working 9-5 during the summer is quite enough for me. i have quite a great life. I am, however, quite sorry that apparently your child/teenage-hood was unsatisfactory.

So if you're such an accomplished writer, why do you use sweeping generalizations to loosely connect 'me' with an 'unhappy childhood'? I guess your school didn't teach you how to analyze properly. Quite the contrary. My life was hard but enjoyable, and I worked to create the life I wanted.

I never said I was an accomplished writer simply that I have been published.

You assumed that because I am a college student and a writer that I am depressed and cynical, obviously there is something you need to work out within your life. You should hop off Current and go do that.

Actually, I assumed you were depressed and cynical due to the inordinate amount of care you have for this (sub par, but that's irrelevant) corporation and the degree to which you blindly defend it and its CEO. This indicates to me a very stunted level of maturity.

Thanks, Dr. Phil!

And actually, there are many different people who come and comment under this username at our companies. It's funny when people insult 'me' because that doesn't really exist...

Because you could decipher the amount of care I have for Apple from a few posts in which I never said anything about caring for the company? I simply commented on your comment. I don't know Steve Jobs nor do I have any stake in Apple, I simply want the company to continue to produce products I like. The same goes for Sony and Samsung.

You again assumed incorrectly, but that's okay.

And yes, it is my responsibility to know who posts from that username from your little "company." I am deeply sorry I forgot to ask your identity before speaking to you.

Coming from someone who majored in their fluent language...lol!

And my little companies make a hell of a lot more money than you will probably see in your entire lifetime. But keep up the insults! We are having fun!

Let me ask you: Is English your native language? If so, you may want to study it some more because you are far from being fluent, as am I, but I don't pretend to be.

Are you really back to the "company" thing? This is the internet: It does not matter.

Well, what exactly shows that I can't speak english? How about this: I was published when I was in 6th grade in the American Anthology of Children's poetry. Oh my god! I'm an accomplished writer! Oh yeah, and during my MBA, multiple papers of mine were published. So it looks like I'm more successful than you are, even in your own major. You should really stop telling all these people that you're 'proud of being a writing major'. Good for you, you've accomplished the most basic test set for you by your school district! Maybe you should comment on here after you've graduated and have proven that you can get your degree...

"Coming from someone who majored in their fluent language...lol!"

I am very glad that you think "someone" and "their" agree in plurality.

And now you say you have been published, wow, good job.

Not only did I say I was published, I also stated the publication in which I was published. Wow, you corrected internet grammar! I'm sorry this is not a place where I really care how I write. I love it when a person who makes less money than my employees tries to shit on me! Keep going, champ!

Where were you published and how much did they pay you? If you weren't paid, then you're not considered a professional...Have fun posting here, as this type of site will most likely be in your "writing future". Do you consider these posts a publication, too?

You implied that you knew English fluently, so I simply pointed an instance that proved you do not.

Are you really back to the company thing? No one cares.

Also, I don't care if you and your "employees" make more money than I do. It's money, it comes and goes.

Oh, no, I speak english fluently. I also write fluently. I don't think you know the definition of 'fluent'. Actually, individuals who have just come to this country could be considered 'fluent' in our language. You corrected one mistake on an online chat site. Congratulations.

Oh yeah...and with the amount of money I have and have paid my employees, I don't think that it can 'go'...lol.

I'm sorry for being so mean. I just can't stand some 19 year old asshole commenting on a site when they know nothing and are immediately aggressive. For being 19, you haven't accomplished anything. I graduated from my bachelor's degree when I was 19 and my master's when I was 21. I then went on to build two successful companies while also maintaining a certain level of ethics (ie, my companies actually help people). I'm sorry that I insulted your man-love, Steve Jobs, but get over it. I'm sure he will still answer your calls and I'm sure he'll still be on for your date on Friday.

I just cannot respect your Steve-love when he's featured as an example of what LSD did during the 1960s on the history channel.

Where were you published again and how much were you paid?

PS - It's okay if you haven't been paid. I also own a hookah bar, and we have open mic night every week. If you win, I'll pay you $20 and you can call yourself a successful writer/lyricist/wordsmith.

Your money can't go? Certainly you have seen multimillion and billion dollar companies collapse. All money can go.

But honestly, no one cares about your company and yet you continue to talk about it.

Hm, how old are you again that you are so insecure about your life that you get flustered by a nineteen year old?

And you jump back on Jobs? You seem to be in love with him since you have mentioned him more than I have.

I don't care, as long as he is alive and making products, I could not care less about what he does, provided it's legal.

Fluent: written and spoken clearly and with ease. I don't consider errors to be fluent use of language, but maybe you, with your standards, do.

I'm not flustered, I'm just bored today and you seem like an asshole. Remember, you're talking to multiple people on breaks. This is one activity we partake in to bond as a company. Yes, multi-million dollar companies fail, but the individuals at the top stay rich. My companies may fail, but as my peers and I have made enough money to live comfortably regardless. The owner of our corporation treats employees fantastically, and we've all been able to share in success.

The last comment you made seemed a bit racist to me. You stated that anyone who cannot write english perfectly is therefore not fluent. There are many individuals in this company who cannot speak perfect english but would still be considered "fluent" in the language. Usually they help us communicate with other countries, but no one here has any problem understanding them when they speak english. Your narrow ethnocentric view of the mixing pot that is the United States confuses me and makes me uncomfortable. What in the hell have they been teaching you in school...

By the way, you have some big balls for a person who will not even mention their 'publication'. Is the school paper not a worthy mention?

By the way, you never addressed your publication (or if you have ever been

According to you, are people in low income neighborhoods not "fluent" in English? This is what you are implying.

I read the first sentence and you keep making up nonsense about being multiple people and having a company. You're flustered. A nineteen year old is better at rhetoric than you are, and you couldn't handle it.

Are you implying people in low income neighborhoods don't speak/type English properly? I however, have seen that you don't.

P.S. It's called an edit button, use it.

You are lazy. Believe what you want it makes no difference to me or anyone else. But you came out acting like an ass when someone disagreed with you about the CEO of a company. I am not implying that all individuals in low income neighborhoods write improperly. I am just stating that many different individuals may use their own dialect of English which to them is spoken properly. You are discounting these individuals as well as immigrants who are just acquainting themselves with the English language. It is ok. You are an ass who will see life for what it is when you enter the job market with an English diploma and the attitude you have. hahahaha and once again no mention of your fake publication. By the way a room of individuals here is laughing their asses off at your comments so please keep them coming.

The room of nonexistent people is laughing?

I speak English as properly as I can which is better than you and most people whom I have met in real life and online.

Others can have dialects, and that is fine, but incorrect English is still incorrect English.

I'm not entering the job market with an English degree because I will not be entering the standard job market of which you pretend to be a part.

This is the internet, real life achievements don't matter which is why I could not care less about whether you believe I have been published.

You, however, care very much about my believing that you own a company. It's okay, you don't.

Okay, Steven King. I don't care about companies. I started my first one with $600 and a lawyer. It's ridiculous that you get so riled up about nothing. You speak better english than most people whom you've met in real life? Where do you live? Is everyone there as pretentious as you are? And you're not 'entering the job market'? What does that even mean?

You started the whole thing by jumping on me and the other guy underneath me for having a different (albeit factually derived) opinion of Steve Jobs and Apple products, so really you have been the insistent persistent asshole in this entire equation and you are too much of an ass to even see it.

What, being the 'internet grammar police' is somehow less ridiculous than a person claiming to own or be posting as a member of a company? Obviously it's the internet, but have some personal scruples.

You're 19 years old and idealistic and that's okay. We'll see how you feel about things when you're paying for everything on your own.

Again, I only read one sentence because you started talking about a company or something.

You're an idealist too--and there is nothing wrong with that.

The opposite of an idealist is a pragmatist, and most people bend toward idealism.

For instance, is it pragmatic of you to continue to become flustered by a nineteen year old with whom you are having an anonymous conversation with through the internet?

No. But because of your idealism, you persist.

You're lazy, pretentious, and disrespectful of other peoples' work. Apparently you think you must repeat yourself to get your point across. It's no longer interesting to talk to you. Goodbye, we're going to go disagree with someone else who has something to say.

Thank you, finally something short and to the point. You're not good with rhetoric so you should stick to brevity.

I have respect for you now even if you've been lying about owning a company, or two.

We do not respect you, as all you understand are short insults. It's easy to start a company. It's easy to be successful. That doesn't mean anything, nor is it 'rhetoric'. I don't understand why you don't believe people...I believe you published something, and I believe you're in college. There's no reason to lie. If I were lying, I'd be a famous literary professor or a doctor or something that would make you shut up.

Hipsters... :'(

There is nothing wrong with my being a hipster, if you would choose to classify me as such despite knowing only that I am in college and write, but I will gladly accept my overlord's labeling. Thank you, Oh Great SmallGod.

Called it!

That's a pretty wear argument. The students who graduate Harvard are their product. Institutions of higher learning do not exist to directly produce tangible products.

I have a friend who works at Apple Headquarters in Cupertino who told me that no one there wants to run into Steve Jobs because he randomly fires people.

So yeah, his attitude could use an upgrade. Then again, he probably didn't get to where he is by being soft and benevolent... not to mention he probably feels like he has to prove himself capable of working post-op. Although I don't see how taking up two parking spaces or firing people while dining in the Café Mac is a good display of power.

Most people who make it are pricks I saw a movie about his life a while back and he got some chick pregnant and he was super rich and would not give a her dime to help pay child support. I don't know how true the movie was but I don't see this guy as a guy anyone would want to hang around. I guess to make it you have to be a prick and he is the king prick so his company has done well. I use PC's anyway since they do what I need and I don't enable him to be more of a prick than he is but then again I don't know the guy so I should not be to hard on him. I am just speculating on what I have I see in the media

...capitalism destroyed democracy.

@Sam_the_Wizer: Really? Where?

ad hominem.

thes problems have been plaguing steve jobs forever, not just since he became sick. he has such a higher standard for everyone that its hard to find and keep people who understand things on his level.