Tech | November 25, 2009 | 59 comments

Show your opposition to the esclation in Afghanistan

source: http://twibbon.com/cause/No-Afghanistan-War-NoWar/Join

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Show your opposition to the escalation of troops in Afghanistan by adding this graphic to your Twitter and Facebook icons. Expanding the war in Afghanistan will make Americans less safe, not more so.

http://twibbon.com/cause/No-Afghanistan-War-NoWar/Join
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59 comments // Show your opposition to the esclation in Afghanistan

  • bking74
    • 0
      bking74  

    • Kind of wish your opposition worked since the entire 10th Mountain Division is heading to Afghanistan this spring. This will be my fourth time visiting this wonderful country in six years.

    • 1 year ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • AFGHAN MASSACRE: CONVOY OF DEATH

      The film tells the story of thousands of prisoners who surrendered to the U.S. military's Afghan allies after the siege of Kunduz. According to eyewitnesses, some three thousand of the prisoners were forced into sealed containers and loaded onto trucks for transport to Sheberghan prison.

      Eyewitnesses say when the prisoners began shouting for air, U.S.-allied Afghan soldiers fired directly into the truck, killing many of them. These witnesses say US Special Forces re-directed the containers carrying the living and dead into the desert and stood by as survivors of the ordeal were shot and buried. Now, up to three thousand bodies lie buried in a mass grave.

      The film also provides footage of CIA officer Mike Spann interrogating American Taliban prisoner John Walker Lindh, just hours before Spann was killed in the famous prison uprising at Mazar-i-Sharif.

      "Afghan Massacre" has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • WhiteNoise
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Image

    • WAR
      Most Victims are Children
      As wars have developed in the twentieth century, the ratio of civilian deaths to military deaths has changed radically. One hundred years ago 5% of war casualties were civilians. In World War I civilian deaths were about 10%. In World War II, 65%. Tactics of modern wars have shifted casualties to 90% civilians. More than half of these civilian casualties are children less than 14 years of age.
      http://www.questionwar.com/children.html
      http://www.nomorevictims.org/

      One of the most barbaric and shameful acts of our government is the use by our military of cluster bombs, those packages of brightly colored mini explosives (often made to resemble toys or food packets) that are scattered by the dozens upon contact with the ground where they patiently wait to be picked up by curious civilians (usually children). The result is the loss of limbs, eyes, major injury and often death to the unfortunate and unsuspecting victims.There is no doubt as to the suffering and mayhem these devices are intended to cause.

      "The sugar coated bullets of the "free market" are killing our children. The act to kill is unpremeditated. It is instrumented in a detached fashion through computer program trading on the New York and Chicago mercantile exchanges, where the global prices of rice, wheat and corn are decided upon." – Michel Chossudovsky

      "War, we must realize, is the massive and indiscriminate killing of human beings. War, is always fundamentally a war against children. And therefore, whatever just cause is presented to us, whether true or invented, whatever words are thrown at us about fighting for liberty or democracy or against tyranny, we must reject war as a solution." -- Howard Zinn

      "I hated my part in the charade of murder and horror. My efforts were contributing to the deaths, to the burning alive of children - especially the children. The photographs of young Vietnamese children burned by napalm destroyed me." : Ralph McGehee former CIA intelligence analyst

      “What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty and democracy ? ” - Gandhi

      “Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought! Strike against manufacturing shrapnel and gas bombs and all other tools of murder! Strike against preparedness that means death and misery to millions of human beings! Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction! Be heroes in an army of construction !” - Helen Keller

      FIGHT FOR PEACE !

      The fight for peace: a history of antiwar movements in America
      http://books.google.ca/books?id=QoIhk85ow5UC&printsec=frontcover&source=...=onepage&q=&f=false

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
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    • Reality of life in so-called "liberated" Afghanistan
      http://www.rawa.org/index.php
      German army chief quits over Afghan deaths ‘cover-up’
      November 26, 2009, The Telegraph: The military's inspector general asked to be relieved of his duties after a newspaper reported the military knew civilians had died even as German ministers were denying the allegation.A Nato inquiry has since said up to 142 people including civilians died in the September 4 bombing of two hijacked fuel tankers in Kunduz province.
      http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/11/26/german-army-chief-quits-over-afghan-d...

      AFGHANISTAN: A WAR OF LIES
      November 25, 2009, EricMargolis.com: Truth is war’s first casualty. The Afghan War’s biggest untruth is, `we’ve got to fight terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them at home.’ Politicians and generals keep using this canard to justify a war they can’t otherwise explain or justify. Many North Americans still buy this lie because they believe the 9/11 attacks came directly from the Afghanistan-based al-Qaida and Taliban movements.
      http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/11/25/afghanistan-a-war-of-lies.html

      Violence against Afghan, Pakistani women escalates in 2009
      November 25, 2009, The FINANCIAL: Human rights activists have noted a large-scale growth in violence toward Afghan women, hundreds of whom are beaten, intimidated or sexually assaulted by men daily. According to the human rights activists' publication, the number of suicides among women has also grown... Over the last week, there were five such incidents.
      http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/11/25/violence-against-afghan-pakistani-wom...

      Sexual abuse of Afghan children decried by UN
      November 23, 2009, Irish Sun: Children in Afghanistan are suffering from serious child abuse and high levels of mortality. United Nations officials, speaking in Kabul, have said children are being deprived in the worst possible ways with their rights being neglected despite vast flow of Western aid into the country.
      http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/11/23/sexual-abuse-of-afghan-children-decri...

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • CRIMINALIZE WAR
      War is about killing, massive killing !
      http://www.criminalisewar.org

      In the Age of Obama, both the Left and the Right are pro-war and pro-intervention; the only "debate" is over how many troops we must send to the latest quagmire, not whether we ought to be sending any at all. The news media is completely controlled by corporate interests that profit our foreign policy of relentless aggression. - Justin Raimondo

      http://www.antiwar.com/

    • 2 years ago
  • IMMININT
    • 0
      IMMININT  

    • I think the big lesson to learn between Whitenoise and cabinettags is that people need to learn to make their own decisions. Step out of the media frenzy and find what you stand for. Just because one of them says one thing and the other something else doesn't mean either is correct.

      After all, we all know the media is no longer a reliable source of information...

      All we have at the end of the day is our instincts and morals. Stick to them for yourself and your families because none of this really proves anything to anyone or will affect anyone's future being posted on current.com.

      Actions speak louder than words, words become distractions.

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • I think you should all pay attention to White. Doesn't matter who he is, or what he is, what he says sounds good.

      Goodbye and good luck.

    • 2 years ago
  • Miglue
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
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    • Obama to Announce Afghan Escalation Plan Dec. 1st
      http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/25/obama_to_announce_afghan_escalation_plan

      CHRISTIAN PARENTI: I think this is utter insanity, along with being morally reprehensible if you think about all of the people that will be killed along the way. I think this is political insanity for the Obama administration. I think the fundamental issue driving Obama in Afghanistan is fear of being called a wimp here in the United States by Republicans. We saw there was a division within the administration with the Eikenberry leak, Ambassador Eikenberry who was the general who ran the war for NATO less than two years ago, saying we should not endorse McChrystal’s escalation, and Vice President Joe Biden suggesting that we essentially, I would see it as, re-brand the wars to counter-insurgency but counter-terrorism and essentially withdraw and save face by bombing people using drones from the air. You can see their elements within the a ministration that realizes this is crazy. Why is it crazy? Because there is no way the U.S. can win, “Get the job done,” as Obama says. What is the job exactly? To rebuild a Afghanistan? The country is one of the most underdeveloped in the world. It is covered with land mines, to pick up on the last guest, and the governments there is so thoroughly fundamentally corrupt, that it is beyond redemption.

      The news that broke recently that Hamid Karzai’s younger half-brother, Walid Karzai, former governor of Kandahar, was involved in the drug trade was old news in Afghanistan. Everybody knew that. Not because some secret report had been leaked, but because if you drove past the man’s land outside Kandahar, during the right seasons, you could see that it was covered in poppy. The rest of the Cabinet are similarly heavily involved if not in drug trafficking, but many of them are involved in drug trafficking, taxing the production of opium. Every ministry in the Afghan government is riddled with corruption. Civil servants pay to have their jobs. Every transaction between the citizens and the state is mediated through bribery. And as a result, people are increasingly embittered, no services are provided, the vast majority of aid is stolen.

      The most recent example from this week is the ministry of Haj, where the Afghan minister recently was stealing money from the Afghan budget, $70 million, $20 million apparently he took. And shaking down the landlords in Saudi Arabia to channel Afghan pilgrims to their accommodations. So, this is the nature of the government that the Obama administration is going to try and build up. It is utterly impossible, and I think they realize this, but I think what Obama wants to do, because he ran on the getting out of Iraq by winning the good war in Afghanistan, and has performed that myth to the point he cannot back out of it, that he is going to make an effort to show he’s done due diligence and escalate the war, have more American soldiers maimed and killed, kill more Afghan civilians, and degrade the political situation further in that country so instability further ratchets out, further, deeper into Pakistan, deeper into Central Asia and deeper into Iran, and then try and get reelected and after that, claim victory and withdraw. It’s tragic and totally shortsighted.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Image

    • CONTEXT 101

      Stephen Colbert’s refrain that “reality has a well-known liberal bias” is now less a laugh line than a devastatingly accurate commentary on the deranged terms of America’s political discourse. I say that because here are some objective, nonpartisan, non-ideological facts:

      —The 2010 Pentagon budget means “every man, woman and child in the United States will spend more than $2,700 on [defense] programs and agencies next year,” reports the Cato Institute. “By way of comparison, the average Japanese spends less than $330; the average German about $520; China’s per capita spending is less than $100.”

      —The Pentagon budget “dwarfs the combined defense budgets of U.S. allies and potential U.S. enemies alike,” reports Hearst Newspapers.

      —“President [Obama] is on track to spend more on defense, in real dollars, than any other president has in one term of office since World War II,” reports National Journal’s Government Executive magazine.

      —In 2000, the Pentagon admitted it has lost—yes, lost—$2.3 trillion. In 2003, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that a subsequent Department of Defense study said it was only $1 trillion. To put such numbers in perspective, contemplate what those sums could finance. One trillion dollars, for instance, could pay the total cost of universal health care for the long haul; $2.3 trillion would cover universal health care plus the bank bailout plus the stimulus package.

      Really, how could anyone other than traitorous communists see the data and then consider backing the mildest Pentagon spending cuts? I mean, come on—in a country whose paranoid conservative movement now makes a dead-serious ideology out of Stephen Colbert wisecracks, how dare any red-blooded American even think of pondering basic budgetary facts?

      Colbert Conservatives and Military Waste
      http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/colbert_conservatives_and_military_waste_200...

      Making a killing on war !
      http://current.com/items/89660159_making-a-killing-on-war.htm

      HALLIBURTON / KBR STEALING US BLIND !
      http://current.com/items/89801957_halliburton-kbr-stealing-us-blind.htm

      US ARMY/BLACKWATER GONE ROGUE !
      http://current.com/items/91534386_us-army-blackwater-gone-rogue.htm

      Pentagon’s Black Budget Grows to More Than $50 Billion
      http://current.com/items/91322143_pentagon-s-black-budget-grows-to-more-than-50-...

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
  • Miglue
    • 0
      Miglue  
    • cabinettags:

      To cabinettags
      i know u were having fun with the back and forth with "white" but really u made no points of ur own. i wonder if all u care about is urself cause that is what i gathered? now i can agree with both arguments to the same extent that I disagree with both. u cant successfully argue against the fact that the US has done and continues to do a shit load of harm at home and around the world since for ever. Now having said that im sure this is one of if not the greatest country in the world. And I would argue that we have also done much good for others, but how many times do we have to hear the same old story of the evils committed with good intentions. I simply feel that this govt has taken unjustly from so many that it has a debt to pay its people and those that fallow. Not to help like u would a homeless man u don’t know but as to restore what it has destroyed. Further more u have mentioned God and Jesus name many times in ur comments and maybe not cause u believe as I do, but the fact is that helping others is never ever a bad thing! Do I want the govt in my business hell no! but neither do criminals that prey on those that cant defend themselves. Does that mean we both deserve that luxury of the honor system? Govt must protect those that need it, and not only when it benefits as it is right now by privatizing two bogus wars. And why are we at war to protect us. The moral of the story is, they will protect us from supposed invaders as long as the price is right for them, but not from the corporations that enslave its citizens from within its borders if it cost them a nickel. I truly believe we will eat the fruits of our labor and reap what we sow case in point our current situation. And im not talking about money as u would like to focus on. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven,” to bad for u and those like u that this simple quote if believed proves the evils of a capitalistic system. The bottom line is that we are all flesh and blood and we all return “dust” and no amount of discussion or wealth will ever change that. So do with ur time what u will just as “white” will with his endless debate. I enjoy listening to all sides with equal disregard.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • cabinettags
  • cabinettags
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
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    • BTW Your projection bit about being paid is transparent ;)

      Now match these women's local expertise ...

      A WOMAN AMONG WARLORDS
      For most Afghan women like Zoya, the past eight years of US occupation have legitimized criminal warlords and a corrupt government, resulted in thousands of bombing deaths of civilians, and consequently strengthened the Taliban. While women gained some rights on paper in the nation’s new constitution, in practice more women are being imprisoned, committing suicide, suffering rapes, and other abuses than ever before. This summer’s embarrassingly fraudulent presidential election was seen by a vast majority of Afghans as a debacle of democracy. Education, employment and health indicators all point to a nation whose women are possibly worse off than under Taliban rule.
      http://afghanwomensmission.org/press_releases/index.php?articleID=86
      http://afghanwomensmission.org/index.php

      Afghan Women Resist
      Occupation and Fundamentalism
      http://www.rawa.org/index.php

      FLIPSIDE

      A FEMINIST CASE FOR WAR ?
      "Women for Afghan Women deeply regrets having a position in favor of maintaining, even increasing troops," it said in a recent statement. "We are not advocates for war, and conditions did not have to reach this dire point, but we believe that withdrawing troops means abandoning 15 million women...
      http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a_feminist_case_for_war

      'Code Pink' rethinks its call for Afghanistan pullout
      In Afghanistan, the US women's activist group finds that their Afghan counterparts want US troop presence – as well as more reconstruction. http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1006/p06s10-wosc.html

      NOW THAT IS MATERIAL TO A SERIOUS DEBATE ;)

      Backstory...

      THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES
      http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?filmid=135&id=976&wh=1000x720

      Must see BBC documentary concerning the parallel development of modern Islamic radicalism and Neo-conservatism. Details the rise of the latter movement and its masquerade as traditional conservatism to garner support and acquire power. This film also discusses the development of the current Arab political ideology and shows how both movements originated from the same basic philosophy: masses are more malleable when they are living in a constant state of fear.

      Peace, if it really arrived, would upset things. At present, arms expenditure and (military) aid to other countries are bolstering business. U.S. News and World Report, December 31, 1948

      Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
      Uncle Sam needs your help again.
      He's got himself in a terrible jam
      Way over yonder in Afghanistan
      So put down your books and pick up a gun,
      We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

      And it's one, two, three,
      What are we fighting for ?
      Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
      Next stop is Afghanistan;
      And it's five, six, seven,
      Open up the pearly gates,
      Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
      Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
      Huh!

      Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
      Pack your boys off to Afghanistan.
      Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
      Send 'em off before it's too late.
      Be the first one on your block
      To have your boy come home in a box.

      And it's one, two, three
      What are we fighting for ?
      Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
      Next stop is Vietnam.
      And it's five, six, seven,
      Open up the pearly gates,
      Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
      Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

      "To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • White, how much are you paid to do this shit?

      Are you serious? Lord guy, this sounds like a KGB plan. You want to tie Afgan into Humanist / feminist / pacifist stance? Hello?

      Drivel? yup. check your napkins.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Image

    • Back to where we never left again ;)
      What is it that evades you in a basic humanist, feminist & pacifist stance ?
      What's to debate when argument 1 is being labeled a "communist" in 2009 ;)
      Drivel it is !

    • 2 years ago
  • RockinCanadian
  • WhiteNoise
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • Folks, two things.

      First my apology for taking up so much of your reading time. It's just than I'm an old fart and I've heard this bullshit before. One gets tired of reading it. For the confrontation issue: White is like some, and a unlike others. I would have debated until the cows come home - and then some. Right is right - and wrong is wrong. It's not really a black/white issue - but it's close.

      There are those that think our govt is supposed to take care of us. That's fallacy. You're responsible for yourself, OK? It 's a free country; you can swim or sink as it suits you. Every lifeline we tie to the govt is one more thing they take out of our paycheck, Ok? It's not free- you're paying for it. Or if you're really poor, other people are paying for it. The govt. isn't. Do you understand that?

      2nd, to turn all this over to the govt. is a great deal - as long as govt is honest. Are they? Are you sure? I think not guys. Our govt is run by people - and people are NOT reliable. Can you dig it? Program great. Local officials not = you get fucked. National officials not = you get fucked. Why in hell give them that capacity? Can we not negotiate ourselves? Are we scarred? Of what? The boogie man? Give me a break, OK?

      If you're that damn in-adept, then get a lawyer. But leave the rest of us alone. Hell, we have our own problems. Guys like White want to make it seem like everything will be handed to you on a platter., It's not so folks. You pay for the damn platter ever before somebody extends it to you. IF they do. And the people in charge of that are bureaucrats - that have no love for you personally. You're one of millions. So let's get smart, shall we? We don't want strangers in charge of our shit. DO WE?

      HELLO???? How much more do I need to say to you? Are you stupid or are you not? If you hand somebody a loaded gun, and they shoot you with it, who's fault is that? Hello???? Get smart people. Lord, it's not all that hard.

      BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELF. That's it. It doesn't need to be any more than that. Fight against anything that would take control out of your hands and put it in other hands. If you need help, ask for it. But otherwise, shut your damn mouth. We've already got white and his cohorts to sound that for us.

      Signing the party line, am I? Couldn't be more wrong. To hell with the party lines, guys. I''d like to live my life and be left the fuck alone. Is that so hard? Feel free to do that as you like. To hell with controls. I don't need'em. If I need somebody in charge of my shit I'll let you know, OK?

      Geeesss.. this requires a rocket scientist?

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • White L O L

      Drivel, is it? (laughing out loud)

      What's your problem, my friend? Got all these opinions and can't back up a single one? Are you composed of other people's words? No opinions of your own?

      Then what in hell are you doing on my Current? If you can't defend your opinions then shut the hell up. I get garbage on my TV every single day. I surely don't need it here.

      My friend, if you had a valid point; ; you'd have said so. Your rhetoric impresses me not. Jesus guy, are you really trying to influence these impressionable kids? To what end? You want to turn them against our way of life? How much are you being paid for this shit?

      If that's the case, then the hell with you guy.

      People, pay attention here. This guy is refusing battle. Boy, he's got lots of quotes but nothing to back it up. I'm nothing more than your average wazoo, sitting here in Lou Ky. I thought he was full of shit and said so. Now he's confirming it.

      Well White, feel free to ignore me as it suits you. But I think your credibility just took nose dive. Can you dig it? I mean I'm not exactly much of an opponent. But I thank you so much for the word "drivel". Best smile I've had all day.

      Please feel free to post your garbage as it suits you. I may or may not interfer - depends on how I feel at the time. I'm used to bullshit.

    • 2 years ago
  • 2hellnwait
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • You're sadly mistaking me for someone who cares about your drivel, remind me to ignore you some other time, that is of the essence here ;)

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • WhiteNoise:

      In 2003 Donald Rumsfeld estimated a war with Iraq would cost $60 billion. Five years later, the cost of Iraq war operations is over 10 times that figure. So what's behind the ballooning dollar signs? Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilme's exhaustedly researched book, "The Three Trillion Dollar War: The True Cost of the Iraq Conflict," breaks down the price tag, from current debts to the unseen costs we'll pay for years to come.

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • Good Lord White, is this what you consider a rebuttal?

      If I wanted to know what other think I'd ask them.

      What do YOU think? I'm not going to debate your quotes guy. If you want to debate with me, then OK. I'm here. If all you can do is put up somebody else's mouth then you can take that to somebody else.

      You want to debate me guy, then here I am. All these other quotes from other people - well, if they want to debate then let them say so.

      Am I being hard core here? I'm don't give a flying damn about other people's comments. But I'm willing to debate YOU.

      I'll point out this is the 2nd time I've said this. Are you scared?

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • So what do you do when confronted with a narrative such as this...
      http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/
      YOU EXPLODE :)

      MAKING THE WORLD SAFE FOR HYPOCRISY

      This is what is called, in the history biz, a revisionist history. American history, at least as far as the general public knows it, is in desperate need of revision, bringing what is taught and what is said about America's past more in line with the truth.

      Making the World Safe For Hypocrisy is a chronology of the largely suppressed history of the United States. It is the history that good upstanding Americans are not supposed to know.

      Almost everything you read here is based on publicly available information and most historians know all about it. And yet they remain strangely silent, allowing the fantasyland, propagandized version of American history and the fatuous pseudo-patriotic nonsense spewed by politicians and the mass media to stand unchallenged.

      ANTI-AMERICAN?

      Whenever anyone dares to point out the painfully obvious fact that the U.S. and its leaders have for two hundred years consistently acted in a fashion diametrically opposed to the values which America claims to represent, that person is instantly accused of being anti-American.

      Am I anti-American? I don't think so. But, if believing in free speech and real democracy is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not lie endlessly is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not spy on its own citizens is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not kidnap, torture and murder is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government shouldn't slaughter millions of innocent people simply to further enrich the same old handful of psychopathic bastards and their offspring is anti-American, then I guess I am.

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • Well, white we'll try again.

      Regurgitation is it? My friend, when I puke I turn my head. On the other hand there are some situations that make me sick to my stomach but doesn't cause me to puke. This is one of those.

      Truth be stated up front, I think you'd a communist. That's fine, our country allows that. But I think also that the kids here need to be aware of it. What good that will do them, God knows.

      For myself, I don't try to lead them, or influence them. I prefer they make up their own minds. My mind is another matter.

      Some of your points, white, I can relate with. Your conclusions are science fiction. This is a real world we live in. So we have disagreement? This is cool. That's what democracies are about.

      Want to have a public debate? Suits me fine. Leave us disperse with all your references: I'm not going to argue with them - but I WILL argue with you.

      Care to take this on? Go for it.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • Well, folks I just experienced "technical problems."

      Are we surpirsed? I can't corrrect my problems. Seems I'm being interferred with.

      What's the story White? Can't take the heat?

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • LOL

      "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell

      Is it that the rabble is too dumb to, have an opinion, even after reading what you so anti-intellectually tag as “ long winded boring analysis” …You might prefer Sarah’s, Billo’s or Beck’s one liners; mighty fine, it’s your basic right; but don’t expect much respect from anyone who can actually read a book or two and is plagued with an inquiring mind.

      As for party affiliation I'm afraid you might be barking through your hat for I've been upfront all along Kucinich & Graydon ! ;)

      Highest Bidder (up here)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmhL8bjL9vc&feature=channel
      &
      Mr. Burns vs Obama
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_6yLOwvDr0

      So we should all STFU & tag along ;)

      "For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are." - Niccolo Machiavelli

    • 2 years ago
  • cabinettags
  • WhiteNoise
  • cabinettags
    • 0
      cabinettags  

    • Well White, you're sure having a field day, aren't ya? Trying to direct these kids into the channels you want? Thank the Lord you're not in charge. Because this is a free country we've always had to put up with your ilk. Have you ever considered Moscow? The citizens there would understand where you're coming from and there are some that are sympathetic to a return to the good old bad days. I'm not one of them, but what the hell?

      So, gentle reader, you expect me to go yea or nay on troop increases in Afgan? Nope. I'm not smart enough. Well I take that back, leave us say I don't have access to the info that would make the difference. Don't care about the info? uh huh. You folks can join White as well. He doesn't care and if you don't; well, what can I say?

      It's a never ending source of amazement to me how we citizens are SO consumed with our politics that we totally miss the reality. Republicans and Democrats are the beginning and end of everything. Well kids, it ain't so.

      Want to subject me to one of your long winded boring analysis? Knock yourself out. Want to give me 197 references to analysis you didn't write? Are you in there? Do you have any idea at all how our country functions? No, I don't mean the day to day dealing with domestic problems - which by the way folks your federal govt isn't responsible for and you don't want them to be? Whether you know that or not. If you want somebody to take care of you go back home. Mom & dad will probably provide.

      Unfair is it? well, no shit. Welcome to the world. Question is, do you want to make your own decisions or do you want sombeody to make them for you? We don't lack for candidates kids. Take your pick. If you seriously consider this, then there's no point in talking to you. Save to say please get the hell out of my country. Iran is always looking for a few good men. You're a girl? Oh gee. Well.... remember your scarf.

      I'm too bold and brash for serious consideration? Oh really? I should pay more attention to all the wing nuts? Well, I do that guys. And I dismiss them just as soon as they appear on the horizon. Why? Ask yourself that question; don't ask me. Only thing you'll get from that is MY opinion. Not necessarily yours.

      Oh, and by the way, feel free to pick our a phrase in my dissertation, and attempt to shoot it down with all your well founded quotes. Is that not the way it happens? The majority going "right" and the few wing nuts going "yea, but?" Well, I've got a butt too guys. Nothing to write home about. Photos are available, but that will cost ya. Should I display my ass for free? nope.

      Do any of you know that the original intent of our constitution assumed that the defeated candidate would assume the position of Vice President? Guess our parties kind of overlooked that one, huh? Hell of a lot better to have two of the same party rather than one of each, huh? And who thought that one up? Wasn't Mr. White. After all our party affiliation is EVERYTHING, and the concept of freedom is just an idea. huh?

      Well, children, I retire. Good news, say you? Bullshit says I. But consider this; you're a republican or democrat - yes? Well, FIRST you're an American. Or did we forget that? Parties don't mean shit if there's no country to allow it. Bear in mind the horse pulls the carriage- the carriage doesn't pull the horse. Or did you forget that one? yea, I can see you did.... But what the hell... the guys that died to give you that choice are dead, aren't they?

      knock, knock. Is ANYBODY there?

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  
    • cabinettags:

      Which America are we talking about?

      The one on Wall Street?
      The one inside the beltway?
      The one that committed illegal racist preemptive war on two countries?
      The one with the worst health care system of all the industrialized nations of the world?
      The one where 1% of the population owns more wealth that 95% of the population combined?
      The one that touts liberty and justice for all, that all men are created equal, that guarantees life, liberty an the pursuit of happiness - only for rich white men?

      Is that the America we all belong to?

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • Lurkistan
  • JonRaymond
  • AtomUniverse1
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  

    • I just fail to see any rational to this action beyond the war on terror which is but a thinly veiled blank check for empire building & for the military industrial complex to rule us all into oblivion...

      Empty rational & rhetoric exposed...

      TALIBAN = 9/11??
      Afghanistan by Hypnosis
      http://www.gregpalast.com/taliban-911-afghanistan-by-hypnosis/

      Afghanistan’s Sham Army
      http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20091109_afghanistans_sham_army/

      & anyway...

      US ARMY/BLACKWATER GONE ROGUE !
      http://current.com/items/91534386_us-army-blackwater-gone-rogue.htm

      He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable an ignorable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." - Albert Einstein

      "We are watching a poorly staged rendition of Wag the Dog , interpreted for the morbidly stupid and performed by the criminally insane." - Jules Carlysle

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • WhiteNoise:

      In 2003 Donald Rumsfeld estimated a war with Iraq would cost $60 billion. Five years later, the cost of Iraq war operations is over 10 times that figure. So what's behind the ballooning dollar signs? Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilme's exhaustedly researched book, "The Three Trillion Dollar War: The True Cost of the Iraq Conflict," breaks down the price tag, from current debts to the unseen costs we'll pay for years to come.

    • 2 years ago
  • darinK
    • 0
      darinK  

    • Why should obama decide how many troops we should have? Maybe he should get some military training before going against the advice of every General over there. Power has already gone to obama's head. Or maybe he is just scared of the backlash he should get from the anti-war voters, once they realize they've been duped (obamad).

    • 2 years ago
  • fun_size
  • IMMININT
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • Logos51891
  • BoomChaka
  • Incredulous
    • 0
      Incredulous  
    • Logos51891:

      well, the Taliban would probably take over and make everyone in Afghanistan more and more miserable until they got fed up enough to do something about it themselves...I mean, go figure, that's how our nation was born.

      but of course if the Taliban took over, the corporate interests wouldn't get an unobstructed right-of-way for that gas pipeline no one is talking about....and that is what THIS war is all about-- because fighting to preserve the American way of life is fighting to preserve our right to consume energy, right?

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • Miglue
    • 0
      Miglue  
    • WhiteNoise:

      whitenoise,
      first i think ur right on. but then i ask after all is brought into the light how then deal with the darkness laying in wait in our future, and how to best deal with the hill we must take in our present. i have concluded that let be what is and worry not what will come for there is no corrective action to be taken. the good book has doomed us all to a certain future. and only our day to day action is in our control.

    • 2 years ago
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Image
    • WhiteNoise:

      @Miglue

      Absolutely valid point !
      When one has to battle the powers that be, big money, coercive force, radio, TV, newspapers, the law, the majority, organized crime, lobbyist galore, the weight of has been and is, and the whole shabang augmented by the immobilism of the ones that profit from it all… it is normal not to win; but still one can resist ;)
      The quest for knowledge remains the first line of resistance but is a long & winding road indeed for the scientific method is the greatest tool humanity has given itself but as we know by now, truth is not immutable & that’s fine with me but it would be mighty fine if we where all part of the 21th century & not have ton constantly deal with medieval ignorance by now…

      Hedonism remains but self defense ;)

      The system is designed so there is no easy response to that reflexion indeed...
      Our masters have been at it for a long time now & it is of incalculable efficiency... (see diagram)

      So sorry, no easy way out I'm afraid old buddy !

      Black humor is the politeness of despair said the optimist ;)

      Executive Resume

      Information is not knowledge,
      Knowledge is not wisdom,
      Wisdom is not truth,
      Truth is not beauty,
      Beauty is not love,
      Love is not music
      and Music is THE BEST
      - The girl from the buss
      Frank Zappa / Joe’s Garage

      Also…

      I thought John Lennon pretty much nailed it too ;)

      I Found Out

      I told you before, stay away from my door
      Don't give me that brother, brother, brother, brother
      The freaks on the phone, won't leave me alone
      So don't give me that brother, brother, brother, brother No!

      I, I found out!

      Now that I showed you what I been through
      Don't take nobody's word what you can do
      There ain't no Jesus gonna come from the sky
      Now that I found out I know I can cry

      I, I found out!

      Some of you sitting there with your cock in your hand
      Don't get you nowhere don't make you a man
      I heard something 'bout my Ma and my Pa
      They didn't want me so they made me a star

      I, I found out!

      Old Hare Krishna got nothing on you
      Just keep you crazy with nothing to do
      Keep you occupied with pie in the sky
      There ain't no guru who can see through your eyes

      I, I found out!

      I seen through junkies, I been through it all
      I seen religion from Jesus to Paul
      Don't let them fool you with dope and cocaine
      No one can harm you, feel your own pain

      I, I found out!
      I, I found this out!

      Meanwhile...

      A Working Class Hero is something to be ;)

      As soon as your born they make you feel small
      by giving you no time instead of it all
      Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
      Working Class Hero is something to be

      They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
      They hate you if you're clever and despise a fool
      Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules
      Working Class Hero is something to be

      When they've tortured and scared you for 20 odd years
      then they expect you to pick a career
      When you can't really function you're so full of fear
      Working Class Hero is something to be

      Keep you doped with religon, sex and T.V.
      and you think you're so clever and classless and free
      but you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see
      Working Class Hero is something to be

      There's room at the top I'm telling you still
      but first you must learn how to smile as you kill
      if you want to be like the folks on the hill
      Working Class Hero is something to be

      Yes , A Working Class Hero is something to be

      If you wind up with a boring, miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest or some guy on TV telling you how to do your shit, then YOU DESERVE IT. Stupidity has a certain charm, ignorance does not. - Frank Zappa

      "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell

      http://www.youtube.com/user/jfwilliam
      http://whitenoiserants.webnode.com//
      http://whitenoise.webnode.com/

    • 2 years ago
  • FishaHouse777
  • WhiteNoise
  • FishaHouse777
  • WhiteNoise
  • Maeveeo
  • bushama
  • JonRaymond
  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Maeveeo:

      Yeah, enough of them petty, measly little wars !

      The ever debonair & 'bon vivant' Randy Newman has a suggestion ...

      Go for the ONE... da BIG ONE ;)

      But you're spot on JonRaymond they're only in it for the money...

      "The plutocrats believe there are some things worse than war: the confiscation of special privileges; the abolition of unearned income; the overthrow of the economic parasitism; the establishment of industrial democracy. The plutocrats would welcome a war that promised salvation from any such calamities; they would also welcome a war that promised greater foreign markets, the destruction of foreign competition, more security for property rights and a longer lease on life for plutocratic despotism." - Scott Nearing — 1917

    • 2 years ago
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