Kucinich compares Bradley Manning detention to Abu Ghraib

I am not sure if the old charge will resurface but when running for the nomination once, a plagiarism charge from law school surfaced against Biden. He admitted it and dropped out of the race.

Well said, sir.

Precisely, and thank you for breaking it down so. It does indeed seem that a vast portion of our government is more devoted to government, than they are to their country. Because of the indoctrination and brainwashing those government functionaries are continually subjected to, I understand why they may not be able to contemplate the distinction. Yet, it doesn't diminish their crime, except to the degree that voluntary vs. involuntary acts might be argued. With your permission, I will copy your comment to the president's office. The fact that he may never be aware of my email, has not yet stopped my daily clicks of multiple emails to him.

excellent

You need to get back and start teaching again. +^'d. Real teachers are the heroes!

And you think Manning defended the Constitution in this case?

Well I tried to answer this once but those damned adds blurted on and in my attempt to mute them I lost what I wrote, so here goes the second version:

This case has all the earmarks of the Ellsberg case. Do we have a right to know what the government is doing in our name? Can we really exercise our political rights and choices if we do not know the whole truth. Democracy can not work behind closed doors. It depends on an informed electorate. If we are fed only select information necessary to make an informed decision then our form of government is a mockery of what it purports to be. We may never know the full truth behind this case because it will be cloaked in secrecy yet again.

I know from my own military experience that many things are kept from the American public for "National Security" reasons that the government simply claims without any requirement of proof. During the Persian Gulf War, the gallons of water contaminated jet fuel dumped into the Persian Gulf by US aircraft carriers [we had 5 there at one time] every month was classified "Secret." Why? Anyone who was there could see the oil slicks produced so it was not a secret to anyone on scene. So who did they not want to know? One of the facts released in this case was that we are conducting ground operations within the "Tribal Areas" of Pakistan. Surely the military that is involved knows that. So do the people in those Tribal Areas including the Taliban. So who is being veiled by keeping it secret? We are, the American people just as we were kept from knowing that we were conducting military operations in both Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam War; that we were supporting a very corrupt and tyrannical government in the name of political freedom in the so-called Republic of South Vietnam.

Did Manning defend the constitution? None of us have all the fact to render an absolute judgement one way or another but this I do know. Sometimes doing what is right is more important than complying with the law. Unjust laws need not be followed by a just people. There is risk involved in making the decision of whether the right out ways the law. Manning took that risk and that is my point. It was and is, an act of extreme courage that may cost him for the remainder of his life and it may in fact - cost him his actual life. I salute him for making the sacrifice so that we may know what our government is doing behind to oft misused screen of National Security. In that respect, he serve us all.

By the way, here is an interesting number that rolls around in my head from time to time: 80,000

Thank you for that thoughtful response. Do you think that because Ellsberg leaked to the NYT and Manning leaked to a foreign entity there is a difference in their actions?

Distinction without a difference I would say. You think that all our enemies do not have access to the NYT? I served with an officer in 80's who's wife was an analyst at the China desk at CIA. All she did was read the newspapers looking for clues.

But good question from a legal stand point. Would prove how stupid some laws are to say that it is ok to print state secrets in an American published newspaper but not a foreign one!

It will be interesting to see if they prosecute Wikileaks and not the NYT.

Thank you for the response. I was not sure how the foreign part would make a difference, if it did at all.

Yes sir, we did. And by we I mean the People.

A divorce is also the breaking of an oath. Sometimes people change their minds when faced with realities previously unrealized.

But he kept his faith with his country. Which comes first, allegiance to one's country, or to the military? P.S., I believe that the poster was suggesting that Kucinich is a man of integrity, which might have been stated in jest??? I'm still uncertain on that...

Or when they discover crimes against humanity.

Yes, absolutely!

Sometimes serving your country does not include waving the flag. Sometimes it might involve blowing the whistle on hypocrisy and Machiavellian policies.

Perhaps a different perspective would be more appropriate. Maybe he was upholding his oath as he saw it. To defend this country from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC (emphasis added not to yell, but to highlight a perspective). It is entirely possible that he believed he was defending the people against a domestic enemy, thus keeping his oath. ultimately every person can only follow their own conscience.

Let us never forget "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it"

The Chain of Command serves one purpose, to reinforce the will of the CIC. Have you ever served? Of course lives were put at risk, everyone in the Military or intelligence service understands that their lives are forfeit. That is the nature of being in any branch of service.

The difference as I see it is that perhaps lives were put at risk by these documents, but EVERY life is at risk from the current United States policies. Exposing them may mitigate that risk. Secrets NEVER help, they are a hindrance to freedom.

I'm not sure how you can constitute what he did as breaking his Oath to his country. At least not absolutely. That is not an assertion you can make objectively, only subjectively.

therein, is the issue. others say that he was doing his country; which is the people, not the government apart from the people, a service which they were not in a position to do for themselves. some say, that the government and the military were betraying the people with many of their actions and covert actions.

lives are in constant danger in those scenarios. but, did his actions possibly save more lives long term, than they may have ramped up the danger for a few?

Are you aware that prior to the Iraq invasion a British intelligence agent became aware that the information about the yellow cake (which was used to justify the invasion) was fabricated? She leaked the information to a British news paper which published the information. The British government went after her but in the end had to drop the charges because her actions, had they been successful, may have prevented massive death.

American News agencies were given the same shake at releasing the information but declined. Manning is a hero who was just a bit to late; but maybe, just maybe, this endless stupid cycle of deceit, that YOU are supporting (Right or Wrong) can come to a close and new honest diplomacy can win a better future.

ArchDruid said:

"man of honor and of the highest integrity" that he is not, he broke the oath he made?

. . .

I am referring to Senator Mr. Dennis Kucinich, and, by the way, I have the highest respect for Pvt. Manning as well.

There should be more like both of them: our world would be much different, in a better way.

Thank you for participating!

How often is diplomacy honest?

You could very well be right, I was simply trying to suggest there may be an alternate perspective. I am trying to point out that you are speaking absolutely about a situation that could very well be subjective.

As we are seeing, by the release of the diplomatic cables; Not often. In my 40+ years on this earth I have never seen a positive thing built upon lies and half truths. From personal relationships to national relationships, trust comes from honesty. I would argue that most all problems, on the planet, stem back to truth being manipulated to fit the desires of a ruling rich class. This is a new time in history with the world connected by the internet. We can change our direction by actually standing up for human rights. Honer does not mean blindly following a flag. Honer has a much deeper meaning connected to truth.

I do not believe we can put a hierarchy on oaths. A country is more than just the land and those who inhabit it. I believe that the U.S. Constitution IS the country, and is the first thing that must be defended, or the land and the inhabitants mean nothing.

Tom Clancy writes in his books about things that are still classified. Some in the military are still amazed at how he gets his information, although it is evident that it comes straight from the horse's mouth. Would you consider this treason or revealing that which is hidden from the People?

Great comment! There is only one point I had any issue with.....We can't have a situation, were any member of the military from the lowest rank to a General at the highest rank, deciding if they'll make public that info. That decision can only be made by our elected politicians, and especially our President or Prime Minister.

Throughout history we have been lied to by these individuals. A free and independent media is supposed to keep power honest. Because we have lost that, Private Manning's leaks are important. In Afghanistan American contractor money is arming the enemy. Enough is enough. It may not be perfect but it is time to air out the worlds dirty laundry.

I know I am overly optimistic about world peace, but the seed was planted in me and I choose to water and tend it.

Do you think Mr. Manning hated the army when he joined? I would never be military material myself, but I would fight and kill to defend my community and the belief in basic human rights set fourth in the Declaration of Independence. I also believe that truth is at the very core of human rights. Most wars stem from lies and nationalism. Even in WW2 U.S. corporations provided the Germans with material support; while the Germans were bombing England.

Yes it is imperfect. I think Assange is one of the good guys, but we all have our flaws. One of the things I enjoy most about Current is seeing how similar yet different our perceptions can be based on age, experience and location. Peace:)

A man of your age should have learned by now not to be so presumptuous.

Precisely!