Public and scientific doubts cause confidence in GE trees to decline

But of course, Monsanto and other companies suing farmers to take away their livelihoods doesn't matter to you. Taking away our right to know what we consume doesn't matter. Patenting life itself doesn't matter. The facts are clear. GMOs have not been tested enough to have been put out into our environment with any assurance of safety. Unless you have factual scientfic data to show the opposite that wasn't done by the companies pushing this. And they are being sued because their untested irresponsible technology is contaminating our environment with biological pollution of untold and unknown consequences as they do all in their power to skirt regulation. Anyone who supports that isn't a scientist. This also isn't about fear, it is about holding people accountable for what they put out into the environment that cannot be called back. Dr. David Suzuki is a well respected geneticist. I think he knows what he is talking about.

And of course, as usual, you can't address any points in anything I write- all you can do is a flood of personal attacks.

Somehow, in your truly warped mind, anyone who understands genetic engineering and does not consider it inherently evil must hate farmers, must want consumers to be ignorant, must want to strangle puppies and drown kittens.

Jan, at one time I did have respect for you- I believed you simply painted with too broad a brush out of your ignorance of science.

To you, "GMO" is a thing, not a process.
It is a thing you are deeply afraid of, so you demand that this thing- which does not even exist- be proven to be 100% safe, when nothing is 100% safe.

In reality, it's a process, not a thing, and the process can be used to have all kinds of results, based on all kinds of intentions.

I have no idea why you don't grasp that.

Your repeated replies to me show you have absolutely no grasp on reality- this is all a religious crusade for you. You have no objectivity, you have no rationality- just a mindless obsession of a zealot.

PLEASE prove me wrong by NOT constantly demonizing me, and instead address the points I bring up- if you can.

Now, I'm off to go burn down a family farm and remove labels from supermarket food.

Point out the "personal" attacks in my response. You can't because there were none. You simply want to make that impression so you don't have to address my request to show data to the contrary. But then there is none, and you have no clue as to whether this is safe at all, so you throw out the "I am ignorant of science" line because you don't believe people who are spiritual have the ability to also know and respect science because it spoils your own intolerant illusions so you can come off as superior when you have contributed absolutely nothing of scientific substance to this debate. I am a moral person as are the scientists finding fault with this technology. This is also an issue regarding corporate takeover of our resources and the systems that sustain all life without our consent. It is an economic issue, a social issue, an environmental issue, a health issue and a democracy issue. And yes, it is about preserving nature as well, but last I knew nature and science were linked. Making it about religion is a strawman to cover up your own inadequacy in discussing this. Horizontal genetics between different species is new territory and as Dr. Suzuki stated in the video here it is not sound science, and releasing this out into our planet without proper testing or regulation is inherently dangerous. I think it is you who are in denial.

Oh, and just FYI:

"Somehow, in your "truly warped mind"

Personal attack.

"you have absolutely no grasp on reality"

Personal attack

"You have no objectivity, you have no rationality- just a mindless obsession of a zealot."

Personal attack.

I'm done with your nasty high horse self serving replies here.

You say:
"Point out the "personal" attacks in my response."

I did, in my reply.
Your entire first paragraph was 100% personal attack, just like all of your posts to me have ever been:

"But of course, Monsanto and other companies suing farmers to take away their livelihoods doesn't matter to you. Taking away our right to know what we consume doesn't matter. Patenting life itself doesn't matter."

I have repeatedly had these discussions with you- correction, I have tried to discuss things with you, but ALL you have ever done is personal attacks, nothing but personal attacks, non-stop flods of personal attacks.

It is the whole substance of your posts so it is amazing how you can claim to not see them.

You have never addressed any point I have ever made, instead you run off on straw men about me supporting huge corporations, about me hating small farms, about me approving of patents on DNA, when NONE of that is true, or even close to truth. It is all the exact OPOSITE of the truth.

But you can't deal with what I actually say, so you have to make something else up instead.

Even now, all you can do is fein moral indignation pretending you did not attack me when that is all you ever do.

Yes, my post to you had personal attacks against you- for the first time ever.

Because, frankly, I am tired of your nasty high horse self serving replies here.

You are completely unable to ever discuss this rationally, and that is frightening.

All you can do is attack, and spew propaganda.

You say:
"You simply want to make that impression so you don't have to address my request to show data to the contrary. But then there is none, and you have no clue as to whether this is safe at all..."

Again, over and over, you show you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about to the point it is almost humorous.

I addressed your request to show data to the contrary repeatedly- I even did it in the post YOU JUST REPLIED TO.

Here it is, in plain english:

To you, "GMO" is a thing, not a process.
It is a thing you are deeply afraid of, so you demand that this thing- which does not even exist- be proven to be 100% safe, when nothing is 100% safe.

In reality, it's a process, not a thing, and the process can be used to have all kinds of results, based on all kinds of intentions.

I have no idea why you don't grasp that.

And Jan, I KNOW people who are "spiritual" can know and respect science.

The problem is you, as an individual human being, do not.

Genetic Engineering is a scientific discipline- one you do not understand, and you fear the unknown.

Yes, some companies have used that scientific discipline to do some bad things- but only someone completely ignorant of science would think that is in and of itself a condemnation of the entire scientific discipline.

That is my point.

You think GMOs are a "thing", and that is is posible to prove that this "thing" is safe or dangerous.

THERE IS NO THING.

It is a process.

It's a verb, not a noun.

Every single thing you write is based on your ignorance of the fact that specific reports about specific genetically engineered organisms doing specific things are NOT condemnations of Genetic Engineering as a whole.

You say:
"Making it about religion is a strawman to cover up your own inadequacy in discussing this."

That is EXACTLY my point, and that is exactly what you have done to me from the beginning- you are completely unable to discuss this topic objectively, so you repeatedly attack me for being an atheist- because of YOUR own intolerant illusions so you can come off as superior when you have contributed absolutely nothing of scientific substance to this debate.

Again- YOU have contributed nothing of scientific substance to this debate.

YOU have never even debated me.

YOU have never even attempted it, when I have repeatedly, and politely, tried to do so.

The problem is that genetic engineering is simply a scientific process.

So far, it has been primarily used to put poisons- pesticides and herbicides- into crops.

We can state, in no uncertain terms, it's bad to put poison in our food.

The issue is the poison, not the process used to put the poison in.

That is literally blaming the messenger, not the message.

The problem is people like Jan attack genetic engineering itself, which has HUGE potential to benefit the world by creating crops that are more nutritious, will grow in desolate areas, have higher crop yields, etc.

I recently read an article about a group making corn that requires less water, so it can grow in deserts.

GMOs have the ability to feed the world.

But if everyone becomes frightened of genetic engineering, because of the evils done by Monsanto, and the fear mongering done by people like Jan, then that will not happen.

It will be like the delays in stem cell research because of the anti-abortion activists.

And to make it even worse- whenever I post on the topic, Jan simply attacks me ravenously.

She does not address any points I make, she simply launches a bunch of insults like a firestorm, while out of respect for her, I have held my tongue and tried to reason with her, to no avail.

Blind devotion to a cause is never a good thing.

Reasoned, intelligent analysis based on the facts IS.

Going after SPECIFIC engineered crops created by SPECIFIC corporations because of SPECIFIC findings of harm is good.

Attacking an entire scientific discipline is fear mongering.

Monsanto and it's ilk specifically is wholly separate from the general science of genetic engineering. What individual people do, be it good or bad, does not legitimize or delegitimize a science. Genetic modification can and is practiced morally and with deference and sensitivity to nature. Rant against Monsanto as much as you can, because they are not good people, but do not make the mistake of condemning an entire field because of the amoral actions of a few.

Not when profits are involved.

omg why are people still using paper...