Climate change and sea level rise: "An emerging hockey stick"

LOL, amazing isn't it?

I'm no good at weather charts but I learned how to do computer flowcharts in 1987 that taught me about a FLAW called the "repeating loop subroutine" that came in real handy in 2003. I designed a car engine that runs non-stop WITHOUT FUEL by making it have a similar repeating flaw.

So I guess I'm a fail. No one wants an engine that makes its own fuel as yur driving down the highway. THAT WOULD BE CHEATING.

HAHAHAHA

"We're all familiar with the Theon/Hansen thing so no need to revisit that. "
So why did you need a link?
After 30 years in science you still cannot separate two comments and think a comment about Greenland is linked to a different comment about Capetown? Looks like 30 wasted years in "science".
Don't worry about it, though, and don't go having an on-line breakdown like Jan did yesterday.
Have a nice day.

Yes, it is. But no need for concern. The perverse inevitibly bring about their own demise. :)

LOL. It appears that in the race to crazy you may have a slight lead over me. I must accelerate my pace.
Try the "for...next" loop. Works every time.

You mentioned Hansen in a disparaging way. I asked that you justify your accusations. The source and nature of the link helps me understand your motivation.
Wasted? I can assure you that I'm quite comfortable with it. But once again you fail to address the issue. The fact remains that you cannot justify your position.
LOL. I'm sure Jan is not troubled by little boys like you.

And..I always have a nice day. You?

Either way ya slice it's still sliced bread this world isn't able to consume. It reduces the excitement of everyday existence when you provide inexhaustible fuels.

Are you suggesting that we actually have cold fusion but don't use it because it would just make life boring? :)

I have better than Cold Fusion. My engine systems are simpler (CHEAPER) plus much faster implementation times. Mine are Advanced Steam Engines that do not "expand" H2O they go into VIOLENT EXPLOSION MODE.

1. Zero Pollution.
2. Don't use Fuels.
3. Zero exhaust gases.
4. Weight Reduction (cars & trucks).
5. Replaces Nuclear Power Plants worldwide.

But if they were built the race would end and the power brokers would stop getting their daily rush of new energy source suggestions. So they sit, alongside Tesla, Floyd Sweet, Italy's cold fusion, and so on & so forth. We're on a sleighride that never runs out of snow.

I did mention Hansen in a disparaging way, and with good reason. However, I don't need to answer to you or give you reasons for my opinions.

Fail to address the issue? What issue, or are you just trying to play around with words because you have nothing solid to offer?

I'm sure Jan isn't troubled by little ''boys' like me, she's far too busy trawling the internet looking for bad weather stories to blame us for.

Have a nice day, and I hope you don't get RSI in that wrist of yours.

Breakdown? No, I just outted a fraud... or two.

It always comes full circle doesn't it?

I'm sure very "little."

True . Like the neverending search for peace that will never be because war is far more lucrative.

Still you cannot justify your position.
"...blame us for." Who is "us".

Yes. It fascinates me that people can behave in this way.

Such concerted effort to build big skyscrapers in record time only shows our potential if we really used it. So I guess it really does come down to us as a species not really wishing to use it for what will truly benefit us. Our epitaph.

Sorry, you're just not making any sense at all. I can't be bothered with your word games.

That's too bad. Move along then.

That was impressive indeed. Sort of a 30-story Butler Building.
Nice find there Gravity_Man.

Don't know how this got down here. Should have been under "... full circle..." :p

Certainly we can be productive when need-be. Sometimes it seems, though, that we're determined to use all available resources and get everything "done" in the next 20 years or so. Then what do we do? Just "exist" with our beer, pina coladas, and soylent green?

Life is like an Equation. Equations have all the Variables on the left side "set equal to" whatever's desired to pop out as being True on the right side.

Right now all our equations are set equal to = Money. Every pull on people's time, efforts, sweat, the pursuit of happiness, all has to come up saying MONEY.

MONEY OUT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Money should be on the left side of equations with all the other Variables => while on the right side SET TO BEING TRUE should always come up People Fed, People in Homes, People not gagging on air pollution and water pollution, No Gene damaged autistic or retarded or excessive stillborns.

We invented calculators but we can't write equations.

I think I followed that. I have two thoughts:

1. We're great at creating tech. We don't manage it worth a damn, if at all.
2. Money is an entirely fictitious entity. If it was totally eradicated tomorrow the lives of 99% of people on Earth would not change in the slightest.

"Management of Tech" yeah, well, when Tech [and everything else] is MICRO-MANAGED OUT TH' YING YANG that's where your Money is going anyway.

We are all out here busting our buns TO MAKE MONEY while the Control Freaks bent on controlling everything is charging us 55% of what we make to pay the people in those Control Booths (gov't employees).

All of which means Workers are actually making Great Paychecks from which a great deal is used to run control algorithms on EVERYTHING... til you reach a point where NOBODY HAS NUTHIN' and the Control Freaks are enjoying large homes (yes, two or more) and 16-cylinder Bugatti automobiles.

And the Control Freaks know as well as every cat knows water's wet, that my engines drops the whole house around their heads. So ya can't actually SOLVE ANYTHING what you can do is commission more studies and draw up more Charts to show why we are where we are, when if those monies were used to build the engines that solves all the problems was done THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY PROBLEMS.

Like I said man, the Equation is written in such a way that the Result has to always equal MONEY, not solutions. The entire Shebang revolves around NEVER SOLVING ANYTHING.

Just like how combustion engines are made Backwards. They were made wrong to start with so to FORCE THEM TO WORK they added a radiator and engine jacket, hoses, water pump and all that, to make WHAT WAS BAD APPEAR TO BE GOOD.

Another reason the "PEOPLE ON TOP" have to stop engines from Tesla, Sweet, me, is they stop being "THE PEOPLE ON TOP" with their morning dip in the backyard cement ponds with naked Movie Actresses hoping to get a part in their next films. Taking in a little tennis, getting sweaty, little afternoon roll-in-the-hay delight with whoever else they can buy.

Once Energy & Engines are solved the masseuse stops coming.

So technically Tech is managed JUST FINE because it's going ON THE SHELF WITH THE REST where they want it. AND THE WORKERS ANTS KEEP PUNCHING IN FOR ANOTHER DAY IN THE GALLIONS ROWING THEIR SHIP FOR THEM YOU SEE.

HAHAHAHA Floyd Sweet designed a device (on YouTube) that is essentially a radio receiver, except it receives all that "static" our radios filter out. HIS DEVICE ATTRACTED IT and channeled through as it travels from all points out in Space to reach Earth Ground, which is what all electrical energies want to do => REACH THE GROUND.

His device alone, called the V.T.A. (Vacuum Triode Amplifier named after vacuum radio tubes used in early radios & TV's) would give us, all of us, more energy than anyone could ever use.

We are living in a petri dish. We may as well all be named Pete.

Land based thermometers show a warm bias due to poor siting, even you should know that. This article says what you want to hear, and that's all that matters really.

Why don't you try actually reading something substantial instead of following me around like some lost puppy dog here as if I give two farts what you have to say. You can follow me until doomsday but it changes nothing and I"m not going anywhere because anytime you follow me to try to discredit what I post it only shows your fear of what I post. The information I posted is real, it is scientific, it is accurate .And your BS denial about where the thermometers are placed was already debunked in this article as it relates to one of your gurus no doubt, Watts, another BS denialist. Don't even think to come here anymore responding to me as if I place ANY credibility in your I LOVE CO2 trash. We know what you are.

This is bs. ONE location and it only goes up to 2001 and lists no source. Again, we know what you are.

I don't wish to now read your paid for excuses about how you were once "in my camp." You could never be in the camp I am in, because it is the camp of truth and humanity. You have been outted long ago here for your true motivations. The information posted here again is accurate. Deal with it.

Whew. You're very dishonest. Knowledgeable, well read, cherry-picking-dishonest. If it was warmer in the 1930's when there was barely 1 1/2 Billion people and 1/10 the pollution-spewing engines and power plants, WHAT PRAY TELL DOES THAT DO FOR US NOW???

It tells me that if 2012 reaches the heat of the 1930's heatwave you believe in ADDED TO OUR ENGINES & COAL-BURNING POWER PLANTS means we are up against the wall with an awl through our ear. There isn't time for Carbon Credits.

There isn't time for anything. Just your incessant screaming you're headed in the right direction, straight out of The Poseidon Adventure.

One good Climate Pendulum swing through another 1930's is all we need and it's FRY BABY FRY, in your seat, when the air conditioning quits.

Based on my assessment, and correct assessment of IceKat's cherry-picking that conveniently broad-blankets over important info, I can say with an EXTREMELY STRAIGHT FACE IF JESUS DOESN'T SAVE US WE'RE DEAD.

2012 DEAD FROM IMMINENT MASS HUMAN DIE-OFF EXTINCTION EVENT.

Actually yes, you have a point, I was never in the camp you're in. I was in a position to become interested in the man-made global warming theory, let's just put it that way.

"The information posted here again is accurate. Deal with it."
I do, that's why I'm here, though I rarely see any accuracy in your comments. All you do is post weather stories and hope people see your view that they are all caused by man. They're not. The data and information I post here shows that your comments are merely disinformation gathered from extremists such as Romm and others. You are unable to answer questions or offer explanations when confronted. You expect to be able to post propaganda here, unopposed, and then be admired for it. Well, to an extent it is working for you. It seems this forum is merely a gathering place of like-minded people who are also in the minority in the world. This, for you, is a safe haven where you think you can post extremist material at will. Well, my aim here is to show the casual viewer who may stumble into this site that there is a credible alternative to your slanted and cemented views.
You have nowhere to go until Gore tells you otherwise. I, on the other hand, can change my mind when new evidence and data comes in. Contrary to your belief (though I doubt you actually believe it yourself) I am not in the pay of oil, coal or any other industry with a vested interest. That argument is well worn out and frankly, was so immature as to not even warrant a response.
But immaturity is rife in you. Now you're saying you're going to report someone for harassing you, and all because he posts a story that counters your belief. Come on, get to grips with the real world. People are sick to death of being told to feel guilty, that the weather is their fault, and of being fed "the end is nigh" messages in a 21st century format.

If you are lumping Jan and me in the "same minority" you only reveal how SLOPPY YOU ARE. The End is nigh but based on Scriptures and Calendar calculations NOT CLIMATE CHANGE.

Climate Change is Jan's bag.

That being said I do not avoid clear observations in climate so it is more than passing interest that the Climate is now in an incredible Winter Warming phase... because such a calm weather phase preceded World War I.

We were expecting this to happen from longer ago that you've been working your still.

Therefore we have multiple confirmations The End is Nigh both from your perspective AND Jan's and the Bible and The Weather, from every side we have convergence of The End being upon us. That's why you can argue Jan to a standstill but you cannot me. Jan has all her "eggs" in one basket.

We carry many baskets. It looks like you and Jan are going to continue pulling each other's hair out over the one basket while totally oblivious to Armageddon's beginning soon. Suit yoself.

Yes and they're shaking in their boots thinking their gravy trains will stop. It's all they care about, their almighty BS money.

Nice chart, IceKat. Thanks. I will be brief.

1. Nice try.
2. No extremist views from Hansen, just extreme reactions from those inconvenienced. I don't recall him being described as an embarrassment by NASA but I'm sure you'll provide us with the link for that.
3. Nice chart. Accurate and relevant, but only a part of the story. Snow adds water mass. Ice melting and glacial calving cause loss of mass. The increasing mass of snow offsets only a small part of the melting/calving losses. Increasing global temperature causes more precipitation (snow) but, obviously, the melting as well. On balance, we lose.

It's just good science, IceKat. Ignore it at your own peril.

Of course it's only part of the story. What did you expect, a complete manual of the climate?
You have an interesting opinion, but that's all it is. You show little understanding of how things actually work.

Apparently you can't provide any back-up for your characterizations of Hansen so we'll just ignore them as unjustifiable BS.
You presented the chart as if it would debunk everything and those who would believe otherwise are either ignorant or misled. When challenged, you allow that "it's only part of the story" but insinuate that we would be unreasonable to expect you to present any more than that tiny piece. A complete manual is not necessary; I don't know why you might think it would be.
The brief discussion of mass-in/mass-out was intended to simplify it for your benefit. You only brought the issue of Greenland snowfall to the table, so the only issue is delta water mass. It really is no more complicated than that. That is not an opinion; that is science. "... how things actually work.." is not relevant to this discussion.
All that aside we're still left with the basic issue. You say "Greenland is amassing snow". I never disputed that, only it's meaning. You still have not explained the relevance.

You will find this person and I suspect at least one or two others have been more than likely placed here to follow us around to post propaganda in the hope that like the fossil fuel and PR firms that hire people to infiltrate sites on the web (and of course ESPECIALLY Al Gore's site) that this is all you will get. Unjustifiable BS. They don't even realize that by stating that snow is increasing that only backs up the fact that we are overloading the hydrologic cycle and that added snow combined with warmer air temperatures will cause more meltwater and surface melt pools which will form moulins that go deep down through crevises to cause dynamic ice flow. Deniers cherrypick because they are paid for part and parcel by coal companies (Monckton as an example) and the fossil fuel companies and organizations like the Heartland Institute and American Petroleum Institute. They do nothing but fight against clean air, clean water, sustainable agriculture and even planting trees because they see it as some paranoid support of "communism." as well as profiting from doing it. I tell you, I think many of those who follow this line of thought are mentally impaired and need help at this point. Sorry to go on, but their collective prevarications and misinformation campaigns all of these years are now causing people to die and the biodiversity of this planet to be in danger for the future. It's time to win this conversation to save ourselves, because they damn well don't care.

I'm extremely sorry for not providing a link. Please accept my sincere apologies!
Here you go:
“Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA's official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind's effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress."

Read the whole article, you'll discover an ex-NASA scientist comes out as a sceptic - imagine that!!!

""As Chief of several of NASA Headquarters’ programs (1982-94), an SES position, I was responsible for all weather and climate research in the entire agency, including the research work by James Hansen, Roy Spencer, Joanne Simpson, and several hundred other scientists at NASA field centers, in academia, and in the private sector who worked on climate research," Theon wrote. "I appreciate the opportunity to add my name to those who disagree that global warming is man made.”"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/28/nasa_climate_theon/

The chart I presented, which you obviously neither understand nor understand the significance of indicates that, far from turning into a green desert, Greenland is in fact increasing mass. Your description of Greenland losing more mass is incorrect and your reasoning flawed, badly. Hence the retort that you show no understanding of the process.

Keep up with the science, there are plenty of articles written in simple language that you may comprehend, if not you can always ask an adult.
Good day.

Grow up. Your Gore-led theory bit the dust years ago, now it's just a church for cling-ons with nowhere to go.

You should actually take a trip to Greenland and meet and talk with the people who live there. They'll not only tell you about the problems they face and their experiences, they'll show you. The amount of methane escaping due to melting ice is growing at an increasing pace and local ecosystems face dire consequences as a result of the changing environment.